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Thread: LWRC 10.5, or LMT 10.5 upper?

  1. #41
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    My vote is for the LMT over the LWRC.

    For those of you who run an LMT 10.5", what buffer do you use (when shooting unsuppressed)?

    ."It is my duty to leave nothing undone that I may lawfully do, to pull down this administration... They who, from indifference, or with their eyes open, persist in hugging the traitor to their bosom, deserve to be insulted... deserve to be slaves, with no other music to soothe them but the clank of the chains which they have put on themselves and given to their offspring."
    --John Randolph of Roanoke (In reference to the John Quincy Adams admistration of 1826)

  2. #42
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    I have an H buffer in my work gun an Anvil Arms FA lower with an LMT 10.5 upper. My personal gun is a factory LMT SBR, it came with a standard carbine buffer. Both bave run 100% for 1200-1500 rounds each. I spoke to LMT by email and they suggested the heavest buffer you could run w/good reliability. I plan to get another H buffer for my gun.

    Quote Originally Posted by winfield813@yahoo.com View Post
    My vote is for the LMT over the LWRC.

    For those of you who run an LMT 10.5", what buffer do you use (when shooting unsuppressed)?
    For those who fought for it. Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.

  3. #43
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    i run a carbine buffer in my 10.5 LMT. Never had a problem with it and I love the gun..........

  4. #44
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    Great guns! I was confused at first by the suggestion. If an H buffer is better why sell it wirh a standard buffer?

    Quote Originally Posted by spanky4888 View Post
    i run a carbine buffer in my 10.5 LMT. Never had a problem with it and I love the gun..........
    For those who fought for it. Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by winfield813@yahoo.com View Post
    My vote is for the LMT over the LWRC.

    For those of you who run an LMT 10.5", what buffer do you use (when shooting unsuppressed)?
    I have a complete LMT MK18 (Upper, Lower, BCG), so I run an LMT M16 bolt carrier in the weapon. I use this along with an H buffer with Wolf and PMC, I use an H2 with everything else. I tried an H3 once and it ran well with Winchester M855, but not with any .223 ammo. Honestly I think it would run just fine with an H2 and Wolf and PMC, but I swap out the buffer anyway. I have yet to see any stoppages and I have well over 1000 rounds out of my upper, probably closer to 2000 rounds, and it has not yet been cleaned,only lubed. I really love this little rifle.
    Last edited by decodeddiesel; 09-14-10 at 14:32.

  6. #46
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    Of the two choices you offered I would take the LMT.

    As much as I would like to be, I'm just not a piston AR fan. Running cooler and cleaning easier are great, but I still want to see one hold up long term without carrier tilt or other problems. Take the cost versus a DI gun and availability of spare parts into consideration, and it's a tough pill to swallow for me.

    All of that being said... I would choose an 11.5" BCM upper over both of them. I can't remember who (Pat or LAV maybe) had a post a while back explaining the dwell time differences between the 10.5" and 11.5" barrel uppers, and the effect it could have on reliability. That is the reason I would go 11.5". The reason I chose BCM is because they put out an incredible product, and Paul is a stand up guy that is great to deal with. Throw in the fact that NOBODY beats them in dollar for dollar value, and it makes the decision simple (for me).

    Sorry to hi jack your thread with a little bit of fact and a lot of my opinions. Hopefully it was at least of some value.

    Jay

  7. #47
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    really depends on how you are going to be shooting it. Full auto unsuppressed will keep going no matter how many beta C mags you push through a piston, where as a DI gas tube will fail after about 250 to 300 rounds, but who will shoot the rifle practically that way anyways?

    If your shooting semi go with a DI as you won't really get to reap the benefits with a piston system. When using a suppressor you will not really notice a difference in performance as back pressure from the suppressor blows crap back onto the bolt as a DI system would do.


    I own both and love both.

    So over all, piston for full auto and DI for semi.

    I've also noticed that the piston system tends to push through the grim a little better when suppressed but no real noticeable difference.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcote258 View Post
    really depends on how you are going to be shooting it. Full auto unsuppressed will keep going no matter how many beta C mags you push through a piston, where as a DI gas tube will fail after about 250 to 300 rounds, but who will shoot the rifle practically that way anyways?

    If your shooting semi go with a DI as you won't really get to reap the benefits with a piston system. When using a suppressor you will not really notice a difference in performance as back pressure from the suppressor blows crap back onto the bolt as a DI system would do.


    I own both and love both.

    So over all, piston for full auto and DI for semi.

    I've also noticed that the piston system tends to push through the grim a little better when suppressed but no real noticeable difference.
    Do you have empirical evidence to support this claim?

  9. #49
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    Jcote, doesn't the following video obviate your 250-300 rd gas-tube claim?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWAs4...layer_embedded

    ."It is my duty to leave nothing undone that I may lawfully do, to pull down this administration... They who, from indifference, or with their eyes open, persist in hugging the traitor to their bosom, deserve to be insulted... deserve to be slaves, with no other music to soothe them but the clank of the chains which they have put on themselves and given to their offspring."
    --John Randolph of Roanoke (In reference to the John Quincy Adams admistration of 1826)

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by decodeddiesel View Post
    Do you have empirical evidence to support this claim?
    Sure, just from shooting both in a full auto/select fire setting. Unsuppressed, a piston will keep a majority of the grim out of the tight tolerant upper receiver also known as the not shitting where you eat saying, where as the DI sprays carbon into the upper receiver and buffer tube. This is obvious and nothing new here. When shooting suppressed full auto either piston or DI, back pressure from the suppressor blows back over the bolt once disengaged and leaves "streaks" of carbon all over the side of the BCG. Also on clean up, carbon from the piston rifle made its way into the buffer tube, lower receiver, and optics.

    After about 500 rounds of shooting select fire with a suppressor, the piston showed a slower cyclic ROF and you could hear the BCG "grinding" in the upper receiver from the carbon replacing lubricant but continued to fire in semi.

    The DI weapon also began to show the same symptoms but only after about 250 to 300 rounds. Where carbon blows back the BCG and back pressure release into the upper receiver, is seems you get almost twice as much carbon in the upper receiver than piston system. Does this make a DI system inferior? Absolutely not, the DI system is tested proven system and continues to perform, hence the still current use in current military.

    One of the guys that tunes weapon systems (polished triggers, custom machining, ect..) swears by the DI if running full auto, I personally like piston. Both are great weapons, DI has a better chance of becoming up and running if failure is evident for parts reason where as failure is only a matter of being made by man so its not a matter of if but more a matter of when. Personal preference is bottom line, and back to the topic, save your money and keep the 11.5, my 10.5 (piston and DI) are fun as hell but you won't notice any gain with an inch. Take care.

    Jon

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcote258 View Post
    Sure, just from shooting both in a full auto/select fire setting. Unsuppressed, a piston will keep a majority of the grim out of the tight tolerant upper receiver also known as the not shitting where you eat saying, where as the DI sprays carbon into the upper receiver and buffer tube. This is obvious and nothing new here. When shooting suppressed full auto either piston or DI, back pressure from the suppressor blows back over the bolt once disengaged and leaves "streaks" of carbon all over the side of the BCG. Also on clean up, carbon from the piston rifle made its way into the buffer tube, lower receiver, and optics.

    After about 500 rounds of shooting select fire with a suppressor, the piston showed a slower cyclic ROF and you could hear the BCG "grinding" in the upper receiver from the carbon replacing lubricant but continued to fire in semi.

    The DI weapon also began to show the same symptoms but only after about 250 to 300 rounds. Where carbon blows back the BCG and back pressure release into the upper receiver, is seems you get almost twice as much carbon in the upper receiver than piston system. Does this make a DI system inferior? Absolutely not, the DI system is tested proven system and continues to perform, hence the still current use in current military.

    One of the guys that tunes weapon systems (polished triggers, custom machining, ect..) swears by the DI if running full auto, I personally like piston. Both are great weapons, DI has a better chance of becoming up and running if failure is evident for parts reason where as failure is only a matter of being made by man so its not a matter of if but more a matter of when. Personal preference is bottom line, and back to the topic, save your money and keep the 11.5, my 10.5 (piston and DI) are fun as hell but you won't notice any gain with an inch. Take care.

    Jon
    This still does not address your claim of gas-tube failure.

    ."It is my duty to leave nothing undone that I may lawfully do, to pull down this administration... They who, from indifference, or with their eyes open, persist in hugging the traitor to their bosom, deserve to be insulted... deserve to be slaves, with no other music to soothe them but the clank of the chains which they have put on themselves and given to their offspring."
    --John Randolph of Roanoke (In reference to the John Quincy Adams admistration of 1826)

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by winfield813@yahoo.com View Post
    Jcote, doesn't the following video obviate your 250-300 rd gas-tube claim?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWAs4...layer_embedded
    Not entirely, I'm not knocking the DI guns at all, I'm talking suppressed full auto/select fire is where you will notice a difference in DI and piston guns.

    Failure of the gas tube may also be a problem with quality control and man made errors, some make it as you see in the video and others fail before the 300 mark.

    I'm merely saying that's it's not practical to shoot the weapon in that manner and it depends on how you will be shooting the weapon and you should choose a platform accordingly.

    I'm just giving a little experience info, you guys don't have to attack what i am saying. Take it or leave it is up to you.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcote258 View Post
    Not entirely, I'm not knocking the DI guns at all, I'm talking suppressed full auto/select fire is where you will notice a difference in DI and piston guns.

    Failure of the gas tube may also be a problem with quality control and man made errors, some make it as you see in the video and others fail before the 300 mark.

    I'm merely saying that's it's not practical to shoot the weapon in that manner and it depends on how you will be shooting the weapon and you should choose a platform accordingly.

    I'm just giving a little experience info, you guys don't have to attack what i am saying. Take it or leave it is up to you.
    We're not attacking you, just exploring your statements' implications . . . we have seen the piston versus DI horse flogged too often not to be inquisitive of all pro-piston claimants.

    ."It is my duty to leave nothing undone that I may lawfully do, to pull down this administration... They who, from indifference, or with their eyes open, persist in hugging the traitor to their bosom, deserve to be insulted... deserve to be slaves, with no other music to soothe them but the clank of the chains which they have put on themselves and given to their offspring."
    --John Randolph of Roanoke (In reference to the John Quincy Adams admistration of 1826)

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by winfield813@yahoo.com View Post
    We're not attacking you, just exploring your statements' implications . . . we have seen the piston versus DI horse flogged too often not to be inquisitive of all pro-piston claimants.
    Here is another video of the DI guns performing in a manner that goes above and beyond the claim of the 250-300 round gas tube failure, I personally haven't had the gas tube fail on me, i choose not to run my weapons to that extent but have had reliable personnel tell me of this failure and all i can say is, "really, no shit, that's not good." He didn't explain why or if it was a matter of craftsmanship but once you hear something coming from someone reliable than it tends to stick.

    Your right I don't have evidence of this failure and personally haven't had the failure happen to me, thankfully. It was just something that I thought that I should mention because it happened to someone else.

    http://video.nytimes.com/video/2010/...ring-test.html

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcote258 View Post
    Sure, just from shooting both in a full auto/select fire setting. Unsuppressed, a piston will keep a majority of the grim out of the tight tolerant upper receiver also known as the not shitting where you eat saying, where as the DI sprays carbon into the upper receiver and buffer tube. This is obvious and nothing new here. When shooting suppressed full auto either piston or DI, back pressure from the suppressor blows back over the bolt once disengaged and leaves "streaks" of carbon all over the side of the BCG. Also on clean up, carbon from the piston rifle made its way into the buffer tube, lower receiver, and optics.

    After about 500 rounds of shooting select fire with a suppressor, the piston showed a slower cyclic ROF and you could hear the BCG "grinding" in the upper receiver from the carbon replacing lubricant but continued to fire in semi.

    The DI weapon also began to show the same symptoms but only after about 250 to 300 rounds. Where carbon blows back the BCG and back pressure release into the upper receiver, is seems you get almost twice as much carbon in the upper receiver than piston system. Does this make a DI system inferior? Absolutely not, the DI system is tested proven system and continues to perform, hence the still current use in current military.

    One of the guys that tunes weapon systems (polished triggers, custom machining, ect..) swears by the DI if running full auto, I personally like piston. Both are great weapons, DI has a better chance of becoming up and running if failure is evident for parts reason where as failure is only a matter of being made by man so its not a matter of if but more a matter of when. Personal preference is bottom line, and back to the topic, save your money and keep the 11.5, my 10.5 (piston and DI) are fun as hell but you won't notice any gain with an inch. Take care.

    Jon
    Thank you, I am fully aware of exactly how a DI system AR rifle works. This response you wrote out, however, does nothing to substantiate you claim of gas tube failure within 200-300 rounds.

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