I'll have to get ahold of some.
I'll have to get ahold of some.
"What would a $2,000 Geissele Super Duty do that a $500 PSA door buster on Black Friday couldn't do?" - Stopsign32v
If you're gonna do a closed minded rant over something, at least give it a fair go. My understanding is that froglube is applied for the first time after your weapon is degreased. Then, and this is why I didn't ever switch to froglube, application with heat is required (direct sunlight will supposedly suffice). And the more frequently the product is used, the better the results. It sounds pretty clear that you did not use the product as stated. That aside, since you are such a "HEAVY shooter," you have no doubt dealt with burnt on carbon, particularly on the ar platform. The ease of removal is one of the major claims with froglube and from everything I have heard from end users, the claim holds true ... that is if applied correctly which you apparently were not able to handle.
As for me, I stuck with plain old clp for pistol and m4 platforms for the longest time and it never failed me despite some really crappy environments because I maintained my weapon systems well. I finally switched to m-pro 7 products and my cleaning time went down (easier carbon removal but still a good deal of scraping with a CAT tool). In addition, their oil lasted longer and didn't run quite as much and reapplication was not as frequent. I added in TW-25B greese on some parts that are exposed to high heat or that I want to stay extra smooth (bolt and carrier on m4, where trigger bar meets the connector on a glock as examples). This worked well as the TW-25B doesn't run and I could always add oil if necessary.
I just recently upgraded to fireclean and it has lived up to it's promise. Cleaning is a breeze and I can shoot high volume rapid fire drills for several hundred rounds and still not have a dry bolt. Also, the stuff doesn't run if applied properly (big plus). That's tough for any other oil I have used in the past to match. But that isn't the selling point for me, it's the ease of cleaning after shooting. It is pretty much wipe down and reapply a light coat as instructed (yes, you need to be able to read instructions as fireclean is applied slightly differently from traditional lubes). Cleaning time is now a quarter of what it was. That makes it worth it for me. There is also feedback coming back from folks using it operationally and it is positive so far. Time will tell as far as that goes but in my current usage, it is a great product.
I'm not trying to upsell products here, give me a bottle of clp and I'll be just fine. But there are better products out there today and your closed minded, half assed rants based on improper application of the product and a lack of understanding of what the product is intended to do make your posts useless. As for cost, a little bottle will last for a very, very long time. Use whatever you like to but don't waste people's time with this drivel. It's embarrassing.
Tried both and I like Fireclean. Cleaning is so much easier now and I can feel a difference with and without Fireclean instantly. Use it in my suppressed rifles and handguns.
Sboza,
Try not to take it so personally. Also, do yourself a favor and don't assume. I made no mention of application process so you know dick all about whether or not I used this lube "correctly".
If you like it, drive on. If you don't like my opinions or the fact that I'm calling out a product that has not been qualified in a quantitative method as "better" yet is hailed as such, I have beach front property to sell you in Chicago.
You are a genuine toolbag if you have your EDC "loadout" in your signature line...
Nothing taken personally guy. Unqualified opinion posts, as yours is, are useless in advancing a conversation. Your input suggested that you used it and your gun went bang. That was your objective criteria to compare to Mobil 1. WTF? If you applied it properly (still doesn't sound like it), good for you. But your test criteria is absurd. If all that is important to you is that "gun goes bang" then by all means do your thing. Like I said, I could do, and did for a very long time, just fine with a bottle of clp.
The reason your input is useless is that it doesn't take into consideration the other benefits of the newer products: stays in place for extended time without running off (verifiable true and reduces maintainance times for some of us who need our weapons for work/daily use), stays "wet" for extended times without reapplication (more subjective but it does for me compared to past products), and most importantly (for those who train/teach a lot), it makes burnt on carbon build-up a thing of the past (if you follow instructions).
Qualified quantitative methods are fine and hopefully mil or some other independent resource will field test these products at some point in time. For those of us that live in the real world, testing out a product for ourselves based on input from others who have used it operationally allows us to improve our capability rather than waiting on a slow moving train. I don't have a problem with those of you that live in the university world of objective proof for everything. But you have to understand that everyone can not live there.
At the end of the day I like fireclean because after initial application process (including degreasing), it makes cleaning faster and crud does not need to be picked/scraped off. I use the amount recommended and at 5-10 drops per gun per cleaning, that $15 bottle seems reasonable to me given that it saves ME a lot of cleaning time.
Your disparaging remarks towards the decisions of other members (many of them with vast knowledge/experience) are what annoy me. And for such a high volume shooter (I think I read a claim of 200000 rounds in three years), why the nasty rants on a $15 product?
Like I said, I have no issue with your use of Mobil 1 or any other lube. My issue is with your attitude and why you felt the need to interject in this thread and belittle the decisions of others? For someone demanding objective analysis for credibility, your rants fell far from that standard you hold others to. Maybe take a step off of that pedestal.
Last edited by sboza; 04-09-13 at 12:43.
I haven't had a chance to try it on a gun for a high range count session yet but it sucked out loud compared to FL on my new Spyderco. That being said, I'm dead certain either lube will work fine.
Sboza,
If i insisted that the sky was always the color red without providing any evidence, what would you say to that assertion?
I am all for free markets and people spending their money however they see fit, however, i take issue with people making unsubstantiated, entirely subjective claims on an internet forum that is supposed to be governed by hard facts. This is an open forum and everyone is free to read and digest however they see fit. I, personally, would rather see someone read a suggestion to buy a quart of motor oil and spend the remaining 10 bucks on 50 rounds of 9mm to go practice.
So far, as i have said before, not a single person in here has actually ascertained WHY frog lube is such a "great" lubricant. If you read past the basic human nature in regard to the purchase, ie the reassurance of the expenditure you see a bunch of guys offering up subjective opinions on a lubricant and essentially stroking their own ego by justifying the purchase.
Everyone wants to believe they are just, that they spent their money wisely and that they have the "best". Very few people are willing to ask questions, or in my case, be a detractor. Challenging the status quo is never easy. As i said prior, i am all for the continued development of weapons technology, i am however, not interested in subjective ideals or feelings. I will repeat myself, no one here has actually proven as to why Frog Lube is so wonderful or why motor oil is inadequate. So far the ONLY person here that has mentioned anything in the way of an issue with motor oil was the one gent that said he had issues in cold temperatures.
My motor oil doesnt run, it doesnt cook off and it has worked as a lubricant in every situation that i have asked it to.
I would like to see some science based research as to why FL is so great instead of a bunch of people simply saying "it works!". So does vagisil...
You are a genuine toolbag if you have your EDC "loadout" in your signature line...
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