View Full Version : Moscow Idaho Murders?
Averageman
11-23-22, 02:51
This is really strange. There hasn't been a murder in Moscow in 7 years and in one night they get 4.
Really odd because 2 others were asleep in the same building and yet untouched.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/moscow-idaho-community-edge-amid-new-report-man-chasing-women-police-deem-claim-unfounded
I think they Gay Bar thing is overshadowing wnother Mass Murder.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-23-22, 07:31
You couldn’t submit this as a true crime podcast, no one would believe you. Four people killed and no one seems to care, like it happened on the South Side of Chicago. Are the cops still saying that there is not a larger threat to the community? It’s like the killer left a threatening note that he’d kill again if they actually tried to solve the crime.
This is a curious case, for sure. I truly don't care, but it's bizarre how they have nothing on such a huge crime with other idiots in the house when it happened.
This is really strange. There hasn't been a murder in Moscow in 7 years and in one night they get 4.
Really odd because 2 others were asleep in the same building and yet untouched.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/moscow-idaho-community-edge-amid-new-report-man-chasing-women-police-deem-claim-unfounded
I think they Gay Bar thing is overshadowing wnother Mass Murder.
That happened well before the CO event enough for media to make it known. I have been tracking it. Had it been done with a gun it would have been all over the place. They may be dealing a serial killer.
There hasn't been a murder in Moscow in 7 years .
This statement seems incredibly unlikely.
This statement seems incredibly unlikely.
No murder(s) reported from 2016-2021
https://www.foxnews.com/us/moscow-idaho-not-recorded-murder-7-years-college-student-slayings
Andy
Edit: 1168 was dumb today.
"Moscow regularly ranks in the top 25 safest cities in Idaho. According to CityRating.com, the violent crime rate here is 82 percent lower than the national average. The Moscow Police Department has a substation right on campus, and you’ll regularly see officers around town talking to citizens."
It's a small (25,000), sleepy, college town. I've spent a fair bit of time in Idaho but not Moscow. Violent crime in general is very low and there where a whopping 40 murders in the entire state in 2020. Damn tater farmers are blowing the national curve.
Nevermind, I’m the idiot here. I better get more coffee.
And we all just piled on, not my intention. The preceding 7 years were NOT murder free.
Andy
I was kind of surprised when the police said they even went to the local sporting goods type store to see if anyone had recently purchased a large knife.
Someone should really tell them that Amazon will deliver a USMC Kabar to your door. And doesn't every kitchen have a large knife, like a turkey carving knife?
Pacific5th
11-23-22, 11:12
This is big news in my area of a Spokane seeing as we are less than 2 hours from there. Moscow is just over the border from Pullman. Both small college towns. We keep waiting for some big Break but nothing. I figured the two survivors may have been the big break but that was a week ago and nothing.
This is big news in my area of a Spokane seeing as we are less than 2 hours from there. Moscow is just over the border from Pullman. Both small college towns. We keep waiting for some big Break but nothing. I figured the two survivors may have been the big break but that was a week ago and nothing.
Exactly. Surely the survivors would be like.... Definitely talk to Joe Blow who has been giving us the creeps.
Now something about frantic calls and targeted, but few details:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-j1_aOhA4E
Now something about frantic calls and targeted, but few details:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-j1_aOhA4E
I hope I'm wrong, but it seems the police don't have many clues. Maybe they are holding back to not alert the killer.
4 bodies found in their beds, dead of multiple stab wounds. Blood all over the place. Takes brilliant detective work to say they may have been targeted. Right.
As soon as we saw the news, the first thing I thought of was that killer may very well have cut himself. This video the reporter alludes to that. They have to check every single drop of blood and see if there is a 5th blood type or DNA.
I'm sure they are doing that. I hope the killer left his DNA in that house.
I'm sure they are doing that. I hope the killer left his DNA in that house.
I'd think that even without a cut, the killer's DNA would be somewhere. Especially since one of the victims supposedly fought back a little. But maybe the guy planned this and came gloved and covered up really well.
Part of the difficulty in solving this is probably going to come down to inexperience. Low crime rate is great, but on the downside the local cops may not have the training and experience to maintain the integrity of the scene in the initial stages, etc. Even the State may not be totally "up to speed". I'm under the impression that this type of crime is in the higher "degree of difficulty" category to be solved.
I honestly don't know just speculating. Definitely not trying to throw shade on the local LEOs
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-23-22, 16:28
Throw shade? They are already pretty much in the dark.
john armond
11-23-22, 16:36
I was kind of surprised when the police said they even went to the local sporting goods type store to see if anyone had recently purchased a large knife.
Someone should really tell them that Amazon will deliver a USMC Kabar to your door. And doesn't every kitchen have a large knife, like a turkey carving knife?
Local sporting goods stores and the schools ROTC to see if they used them.
Averageman
11-23-22, 17:08
I'm not totally understanding how one guy can kill four people with a knife.
Nobody hears anything and wakes up? Imagine sleeping next to someone being stabbed, because all hell should break loose with the first victim screaming and fighting.
Only WAG I got is they had been drinking & were killed while deep sleeping...it's a head scratcher for sure. Said there was so much blood it oozed out of the house.
Bulldog7972
11-24-22, 11:42
I was kind of surprised when the police said they even went to the local sporting goods type store to see if anyone had recently purchased a large knife.
Someone should really tell them that Amazon will deliver a USMC Kabar to your door. And doesn't every kitchen have a large knife, like a turkey carving knife?
And if they didn't check, there would be a public outcry as to why not. It didn't hurt checking that store. Gotta cover all bases.
Averageman
11-24-22, 12:46
I think these guys in local Law Enforcement were initally overwhelmed by the case, they've got some State and Fed help in now, but there is no way to recover evidence that is lost or compromised now.
It just doesn't make sense to me that one person can stab four people and not alarm them as he's doing it.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-24-22, 13:40
I know it’s a college town but how many 18 to 25-year-old men can there be that either don’t have an alibi or are pegging the odd meter. You can almost Sherlock Holmes this into process of elimination at some point. especially when you look at the number of people who knew all four of the victims.
I used to live in an apartment across the street from the scene. It’s a sketchy part of town, lots of tree cover and weird walkways. There were always people coming and going, and it’s directly behind Greek row. It’s very unlikely if the perp was seen that they stuck out in any way.
My roommate was also close friends with one of the deceased. The house was 6 bedrooms with 5 girls living in it. Everyone had their own room I’m assuming, and it was a 3 level house. They got home and must have just gone to bed when it happened. I don’t think the alleged stalker had anything to do with it because anyone casing the place would know there were 6 people living there. Idk if it was someone from the Greek life, but I would bet it was, and I bet they had no idea who lived there and tried to clean house but messed up.
I'm not totally understanding how one guy can kill four people with a knife.
Nobody hears anything and wakes up? Imagine sleeping next to someone being stabbed, because all hell should break loose with the first victim screaming and fighting.
The report said they'd returned from a night out. At that age, returning home drunk AF, was my normal routine. You could have had a UFC match in the living room and I wouldn't have woke up.
I actually went to college there. My girlfriend lived in the apartments in the picture right behind the murder house. I actually think I may have been in that house, or one that looks exactly like it, at one time.
The killer had to leave tracks in all that blood, and he even went upstairs to the other bedroom to kill the next two. The investigators certainly know what kind of shoes he was wearing. Not a word on that to the public. What if it looks like he had booties like a tyvek protective suit has? And not a print of his found? OK he was wearing gloves also. This was a calculating stone cold killer. Or maybe just someone who had watched the Dexter series.
Ted Bundy did it before.
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A subpoena for the cell phone tower(s) near the murder house might be useful. If the killer brought his phone it would have pinged on the tower and then left the area. Dump the victims phones. See if anyone had contact with any of those phones...
Our prisons would be half empty if cell phones were never invented.
Averageman
11-24-22, 23:32
A subpoena for the cell phone tower(s) near the murder house might be useful. If the killer brought his phone it would have pinged on the tower and then left the area. Dump the victims phones. See if anyone had contact with any of those phones...
Our prisons would be half empty if cell phones were never invented.
I never understood that.
A subpoena for the cell phone tower(s) near the murder house might be useful. If the killer brought his phone it would have pinged on the tower and then left the area. Dump the victims phones. See if anyone had contact with any of those phones...
Our prisons would be half empty if cell phones were never invented.
I would take the battery out of my cell phone before I went on a murdering spree. But that's just me.
Averageman
11-25-22, 07:54
I would take the battery out of my cell phone before I went on a murdering spree. But that's just me.
Leave it at home, I certainly wish our military branches would just ban the damn things on deployment.
I would take the battery out of my cell phone before I went on a murdering spree. But that's just me.
I bet there is enough trickle of a charge in the phone to still track someone.....it just borrow an in laws...lol
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-25-22, 10:12
I would take the battery out of my cell phone before I went on a murdering spree. But that's just me.
And when you phone is only off network for the time window of the murder…
Maybe because it is a college town, but you can’t make it down my block with out tripping four cameras…. And that’s one block.
My wife says that I’d never get away with murder, I’m WAY too messy.
The plot thickens. There are 2 other unsolved stabbing murders in the Pacific NW area in the last few years. And each one happened on the 13th day of the month. Anyone think like maybe it's the same guy?
https://www.foxnews.com/us/idaho-murders-third-unsolved-stabbing-attack-resurfaces-amid-college-slaying-mystery
Averageman
11-25-22, 12:58
The plot thickens. There are 2 other unsolved stabbing murders in the Pacific NW area in the last few years. And each one happened on the 13th day of the month. Anyone think like maybe it's the same guy?
https://www.foxnews.com/us/idaho-murders-third-unsolved-stabbing-attack-resurfaces-amid-college-slaying-mystery
Thats nuts, wonder if he's using the same knife ?
All 3 of the different stabbings in Oregon, Washington, and now Idaho, the MO was the same. Victims attacked in their beds at 3am, multiple stab wounds. On the 13th day of the month. Got serial killer written all over it.
Averageman
11-26-22, 05:33
All 3 of the different stabbings in Oregon, Washington, and now Idaho, the MO was the same. Victims attacked in their beds at 3am, multiple stab wounds. On the 13th day of the month. Got serial killer written all over it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYNXybLrFqs
This guy seems to be thinking the same...
All 3 of the different stabbings in Oregon, Washington, and now Idaho, the MO was the same. Victims attacked in their beds at 3am, multiple stab wounds. On the 13th day of the month. Got serial killer written all over it.
An "expert" FBI profiler on Fox promoted the idea that the Moscow murders were done by an impulsive, unsophisticated, younger male. Seemed to make sense. Seems like the smart kids got it wrong.
The local PD seems to be in over their heads on this. Hopefully the FBI can step in and bring more experience and resources.
Biden needs to ban assault knives. There is obviously no legitimate use for a Kabar. If the killer was armed with an x acto knife thid wouldn't have happened
All 3 of the different stabbings in Oregon, Washington, and now Idaho, the MO was the same. Victims attacked in their beds at 3am, multiple stab wounds. On the 13th day of the month. Got serial killer written all over it.
I wrote earlier in the thread they were likely dealing with a serial killer. No one kills 4 people with a knife and is new to it and leaves essentially no evidence and no who knows them is alerted by their behavior afterwards. I'd expect he fits the usual profile, lives alone or with parents in their basement, works some menial job, keeps mostly to himself, was seen as a weirdo by co workers/people that interacted with him, will have some rambling thoughts on evils of modern society, yada yada, killed animals as a kid.
An "expert" FBI profiler on Fox promoted the idea that the Moscow murders were done by an impulsive, unsophisticated, younger male. Seemed to make sense. Seems like the smart kids got it wrong.
Per above, that's total opposite of what makes sense. That was done by someone calculated and experienced. People lose it and kill someone else in a fit of rage, maybe even two, but 4 with a knife? I call BS.
His MO once it was go time may have been rage driven, he was hunting methodically in a college town knowing there's lots of easy targets, perhaps in line with this groups/types of people he dislikes.
Those types usually have a specific hared for woman, so the guy being killed seems off to me, and I'm not clear if those others were all women or mixed? If all women, I stick to my position he hates women and the guy was a target of opportunity, or woke up and surprised him, etc.
I wrote earlier in the thread they were likely dealing with a serial killer. No one kills 4 people with a knife and is new to it and leaves essentially no evidence and no who knows them is alerted by their behavior afterwards. I'd expect he fits the usual profile, lives alone or with parents in their basement, works some menial job, keeps mostly to himself, was seen as a weirdo by co workers/people that interacted with him, will have some rambling thoughts on evils of modern society, yada yada, killed animals as a kid.
Per above, that's total opposite of what makes sense. That was done by someone calculated and experienced. People lose it and kill someone else in a fit of rage, maybe even two, but 4 with a knife? I call BS.
His MO once it was go time may have been rage driven, he was hunting methodically in a college town knowing there's lots of easy targets, perhaps in line with this groups/types of people he dislikes.
Those types usually have a specific hared for woman, so the guy being killed seems off to me, and I'm not clear if those others were all women or mixed? If all women, I stick to my position he hates women and the guy was a target of opportunity, or woke up and surprised him, etc.
IIRC, the women were all roommates and the guy was one of the girl’s boyfriend. She was also the one with substantial defensive wounds, so it would be reasonable to assume the boyfriend was attacked first in that room, giving the girl time to wake from a deep sleep and at least struggle before being killed. That’s my theory anyway.
Anyone who goes into a house with 6 people and expects to kill most if not all of them with just a knife, is either a top tier predator, or an idiot who either fails and/or leaves a huge trail of evidence behind. Considering he got a 66.6% kill rate without being detected by the other occupants, and didn’t leave enough evidence to be caught in the first two weeks? My money is on Option 1.
https://news.yahoo.com/moscow-police-rules-between-university-163900374.html?ref=upstract.com
Moscow PD now saying killings are not linked
Anyone who goes into a house with 6 people and expects to kill most if not all of them with just a knife, is either a top tier predator, or an idiot who either fails and/or leaves a huge trail of evidence behind. Considering he got a 66.6% kill rate without being detected by the other occupants, and didn’t leave enough evidence to be caught in the first two weeks? My money is on Option 1.
I think a lot of people from countries or cultures where knives are the primary weapon of civilians and who personally use knives to slaughter animals on a regular basis could easily kill several drunk people in their beds. Even if this person left blood and fingerprints they would not necessarily be in any system.
Per above, that's total opposite of what makes sense. That was done by someone calculated and experienced. People lose it and kill someone else in a fit of rage, maybe even two, but 4 with a knife? I call BS.
The profile that the FBI has most likely is NOT the profile released to the media. If they have someone who is a serial killer, its entirely possible they are releasing info designed to trip him up or anger him. Get him to leave a note at the scene (if he hasn't already), or something similar. Its one of the little things I picked up in the FBI negotiator course.
I think a lot of people from countries or cultures where knives are the primary weapon of civilians and who personally use knives to slaughter animals on a regular basis could easily kill several drunk people in their beds. Even if this person left blood and fingerprints they would not necessarily be in any system.
I would assume they know the possibility of someone who works or worked in a slaughter house, and who is transitory in that field. A butcher is a possibility, but I would put money on the slaughter house before a regular butcher. At a certain point, meat is just meat, but the slaughter house guys aren't into quite the same category.
Averageman
11-26-22, 13:07
I would assume they know the possibility of someone who works or worked in a slaughter house, and who is transitory in that field. A butcher is a possibility, but I would put money on the slaughter house before a regular butcher. At a certain point, meat is just meat, but the slaughter house guys aren't into quite the same category.
Rather Bundy esqe?
The profile that the FBI has most likely is NOT the profile released to the media. If they have someone who is a serial killer, its entirely possible they are releasing info designed to trip him up or anger him. Get him to leave a note at the scene (if he hasn't already), or something similar. Its one of the little things I picked up in the FBI negotiator course.
That makes more sense to me.
https://news.yahoo.com/moscow-police-rules-between-university-163900374.html?ref=upstract.com
Moscow PD now saying killings are not linked
If the didn't solve the others, how could they know?
“While these cases share similarities ... there does not appear to be any evidence to support the cases are related.”
Not exactly definitive statement. Maybe trying to downplay the serial killer thing until they have more evidence as to not get people all worked up, even though they should be... But I'd maintain this was not his first time in this recent one be they connected or not.
Maybe started in another country south of us as one possibility.
If the didn't solve the others, how could they know?
“While these cases share similarities ... there does not appear to be any evidence to support the cases are related.”
Not exactly definitive statement. Maybe trying to downplay the serial killer thing until they have more evidence as to not get people all worked up, even though they should be... But I'd maintain this was not his first time in this recent one be they connected or not.
Maybe started in another country south of us as one possibility.
Yeah, the title of that article is very poor. They havent ruled out anything according to the statement. They just said there is no evidence that they are linked at this time.
IIRC, the women were all roommates and the guy was one of the girl’s boyfriend. She was also the one with substantial defensive wounds, so it would be reasonable to assume the boyfriend was attacked first in that room, giving the girl time to wake from a deep sleep and at least struggle before being killed. That’s my theory anyway.
Anyone who goes into a house with 6 people and expects to kill most if not all of them with just a knife, is either a top tier predator, or an idiot who either fails and/or leaves a huge trail of evidence behind. Considering he got a 66.6% kill rate without being detected by the other occupants, and didn’t leave enough evidence to be caught in the first two weeks? My money is on Option 1.
Option 1 is my bet also. If this killer didn't leave any forensic evidence in that murder scene that can lead to him, he is going to be hard to catch.
I would assume they know the possibility of someone who works or worked in a slaughter house, and who is transitory in that field. A butcher is a possibility, but I would put money on the slaughter house before a regular butcher. At a certain point, meat is just meat, but the slaughter house guys aren't into quite the same category.
There is a good percentage of meat plant workers that would not be in the file as I understand, but how many in all? There is a much larger pool of those who have merely grown up around edged weapon martial arts and domestic slaughter of animals. I doubt any of the four victims trained edged weapon defense. I am supposing that the killer need not be a "top tier predator" as proposed.
I’ll say the murderer is probably someone under the radar who is not fitting any LE profile like the DC snipers or the Atlanta bomber. If the crime scene got botched from the get go like the Jon Benet Ramsey murder then this murderer could have just gotten lucky at not getting caught so far.
Averageman
11-26-22, 18:26
I doubt any of the four victims trained edged weapon defense. I am supposing that the killer need not be a "top tier predator" as proposed.
Large pieces of sharp metal being inserted into the human body are going to cause some shock along with the trauma. Trauma usually results in everything from defensive wounds, fighting back and an awful lot of noise. Now taking that to a whole other level were going to kill four people like that.
Lets say two in one room and two others in totally different rooms. The individuals might be easier to overcome, but that double with the boyfriend in the room? Your going to have to kneel or straddle one while you kill the other, that could get tricky. Lot of bloody so it's likely to be all over the guy and be slippery as hell in a fight.
So, I don't know, it looks to me that this isn't this guys first rodeo.
You don't have a large pool of people who've killed with a knife, that's a personal level of violence that handguns have made obsolete. Killing someone is one thing, but getting up close and stabbing is a whole new ball game. You really can't help but get covered in blood.
So you've got someone with an odd skillset a predisposition to kill (at least four people) and some basic knowledge of anatomy perhaps.
No you've got a real sicko here.
Large pieces of sharp metal being inserted into the human body are going to cause some shock along with the trauma. Trauma usually results in everything from defensive wounds, fighting back and an awful lot of noise. Now taking that to a whole other level were going to kill four people like that.
I know the news says "stabbed" but I have no reason to believe that is accurate. A slit throat cannot scream.
Lets say two in one room and two others in totally different rooms. The individuals might be easier to overcome, but that double with the boyfriend in the room? Your going to have to kneel or straddle one while you kill the other, that could get tricky. Lot of bloody so it's likely to be all over the guy and be slippery as hell in a fight.
Watch someone with skill slaughter an animal. It doesn't take long. The first victim taken unaware probably did not fight meaningfully. The second was the one with defensive wounds?
You don't have a large pool of people who've killed with a knife, that's a personal level of violence that handguns have made obsolete.
Killing people, or animals? I am arguing there is in fact a large pool of people who have experience slaughtering animals by hand, just not native to the USA. Likewise training to fight with knives, machetes, etc. is not uncommon where guns are scarce.
Remember that these were college students. Lots of college students that same age are good at partying and lots of drinking. When they did fell asleep that final time, they were way deep asleep. That really helped the killer's actions. If they passed out from their earlier partying, it's likely they might not have been awaken by any noise or minor struggles that the other victims before them put up, if they were in shape or condition to fight back at all. These are not trained SEALS you know.
Averageman
11-30-22, 07:57
It's been almost two weeks.
They're not catching this guy anytime soon, unless he does it again.
Has anyone accounting for Orinthal Juice Jones' wheareabouts during the night in question?
Averageman
11-30-22, 08:45
Has anyone accounting for Orinthal Juice Jones' wheareabouts during the night in question?
Hahahaha!
The juice likes to chop on white men and women... Just sayin.
And he coulda been up in Moscow looking for Nicole's REAL killer!
It's been almost two weeks.
They're not catching this guy anytime soon, unless he does it again.
It goes without question in my mind he will, and already has. No one just "loses it" and kills 4 people with a knife. 1-2 maybe, say in a fit of jealous rage and they're connected to each other, but 4 with no obvious connections that they can figure out easily? Not a chance. They may be acting as if this is a one of event to not freak people out and or as a strategy to draw him out as another member pointed out, but I'll bet the farm plus interest this is a calculated serial killer who has probably moved on to a new area to look for another soft target of opportunity.
Averageman
11-30-22, 10:40
It goes without question in my mind he will, and already has. No one just "loses it" and kills 4 people with a knife. 1-2 maybe, say in a fit of jealous rage and they're connected to each other, but 4 with no obvious connections that they can figure out easily? Not a chance. They may be acting as if this is a one of event to not freak people out and or as a strategy to draw him out as another member pointed out, but I'll bet the farm plus interest this is a calculated serial killer who has probably moved on to a new area to look for another soft target of opportunity.
He's sounding an awful lot like Ted Bundy right now and if that's the case, this guy could be related to several kills and several missing persons.
Yes, I do believe this is a serial killer and yes, he has done this before.
Just to note: Looking at the video from the snack truck, no one looked falling over drunk. Yes they may have had a few, but they had some sense about themsleves.
Controlling two people while you kill one of them with a knife must be some sort of trick to pull off.
He's sounding an awful lot like Ted Bundy right now and if that's the case, this guy could be related to several kills and several missing persons.
Yes, I do believe this is a serial killer and yes, he has done this before.
Just to note: Looking at the video from the snack truck, no one looked falling over drunk. Yes they may have had a few, but they had some sense about themsleves.
Controlling two people while you kill one of them with a knife must be some sort of trick to pull off.
Did even Bundy kill more than one per event?
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-30-22, 10:55
Did even Bundy kill more than one per event?
Didn’t he go through a sorority house? Or am I confusing that with a movie?
john armond
11-30-22, 11:06
Didn’t he go through a sorority house? Or am I confusing that with a movie?
Chi-Omega Sorority. He killed two there while their housemates were asleep, so half the number dead, but beat a couple others with a log he got from outside as he was entering the house. He attacked another woman the same night. I think they some of them were nursing students.
https://www.wfla.com/8-on-your-side/ted-bundys-murders-at-fsu-sorority-house-shocked-campus-nation/
https://meaww.com/sorority-house-the-frenzied-3-am-attack-by-bundy-that-killed-two-and-left-one-with-hanging-jaw
Averageman
11-30-22, 13:46
This is important too, because effrectively that's when Bundy became disornaganized, those Nursing students would be his undoing.
And at that point I believe he wanted to be caught.
There has to be a great deal of information that the Sheriff is not releasing, which is normal for any investigation. They are working the case and it's not in their best interest to share details of the crime as they work this case.
It will be interesting to learn more as the case progresses and we will see if there was a sexual assault on one or more of these victims. It will be out of the norm if the perpetrator wasn't cut with this much knife play.
It will be interesting to learn more as the case progresses and we will see if there was a sexual assault on one or more of these victims. It will be out of the norm if the perpetrator wasn't cut with this much knife play.
Sexual assault would make no sense unless it was after the killing. I think they've already stated that was ruled out. No?
Averageman
12-01-22, 08:30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Co5awnyo3dw
And now they think it may be random?
Very much like Ted Bundy in Florida.
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-01-22, 08:47
We know nothing.
Averageman
12-01-22, 08:53
We know nothing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_N52pQL29wI
Aparently not.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_N52pQL29wI
Aparently not.
I'm going on record that this was not targeted in terms of having a personal issue with someone in the house and kills 4 people with a knife. That's not just some frustrated incel type. I'm sure they have some sense of the murderer by the type and amount of wounds they are not releasing.
I don't know why exactly, but I feel this person is a serial killer from south of the border where knife culture exists and he's comfortable with using one. Others here had mentioned someone with extensive blade use via animals and such. I think it's beyond that, but no doubt the crime scene told them a lot about that they are not divulging yet.
You really have to think about the level of motivation, rage, experience, dissociation, etc to kill four people with a knife, not tell anyone, and not get caught doing it. That's a very rare individual, esepcially in the US.
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-01-22, 10:20
I'm going on record that this was not targeted in terms of having a personal issue with someone in the house and kills 4 people with a knife. That's not just some frustrated incel type. I'm sure they have some sense of the murderer by the type and amount of wounds they are not releasing.
I don't know why exactly, but I feel this person is a serial killer from south of the border where knife culture exists and he's comfortable with using one. Others here had mentioned someone with extensive blade use via animals and such. I think it's beyond that, but no doubt the crime scene told them a lot about that they are not divulging yet.
You really have to think about the level of motivation, rage, experience, dissociation, etc to kill four people with a knife, not tell anyone, and not get caught doing it. That's a very rare individual, esepcially in the US.
Interesting and insightful.
The worst implication of your thoughts, besides that the killer will be hard to catch, is that when this guy is cornered and you have a gun, you are still in serious mortal danger. This is Full New York City Mag Dump (tm) territory. This guy is like a dead rattlesnake head.
Interesting and insightful.
The worst implication of your thoughts, besides that the killer will be hard to catch, is that when this guy is cornered and you have a gun, you are still in serious mortal danger. This is Full New York City Mag Dump (tm) territory. This guy is like a dead rattlesnake head.
This is a straight up psychopathic predator out of a bad movie, a handful of such types in US history. That he killed women and a man, I also think is very telling. Maybe just wrong place at the wrong time and was not intended target per se, but I'm currently assuming he's not just targeting young attractive women due to hatred for them (a common theme with serial killers), and men are on the target list too.
Again, that seems to me a very rare individual the likes of which I can't even recall in other serial killers of the past who either targeted women exclusively, and or, used a firearm if men/women were targets. A killer who used a blade on men and women in modern history?
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-01-22, 11:00
So expanding on your ‘Sicario’(?) theory, was that maybe why they thought it was targeted? It has all the hallmarks of a cartel hit with prejudice and bad feelings.
Has the Javier Bardem character from “No Country for old men’ gone rouge?
As to men and women, I’d say that he probably thought it was all women. Especially if the couple was the last killed. He expected all single girls. His intel was wrong, the girl put up a fight and he feared that he was compromised. So he is crazy enough to knife people, but he has enough control to stop mid frenzy.
That’s is a very dangerous… predator?
Averageman
12-01-22, 11:03
This is a straight up psychopathic predator out of a bad movie, a handful of such types in US history. That he killed women and a man, I also think is very telling. Maybe just wrong place at the wrong time and was not intended target per se, but I'm currently assuming he's not just targeting young attractive women due to hatred for them (a common theme with serial killers), and men are on the target list too.
Again, that seems to me a very rare individual the likes of which I can't even recall in other serial killers of the past who either targeted women exclusively, and or, used a firearm if men/women were targets. A killer who used a blade on men and women in modern history?
Both Speck and Bundy come to mind.
if it isn't "Targeted", then do these musrders begin to align with other knife murders and assaults in the area?
So expanding on your ‘Sicario’(?) theory, was that maybe why they thought it was targeted? It has all the hallmarks of a cartel hit with prejudice and bad feelings.
Has the Javier Bardem character from “No Country for old men’ gone rouge?
As to men and women, I’d say that he probably thought it was all women. Especially if the couple was the last killed. He expected all single girls. His intel was wrong, the girl put up a fight and he feared that he was compromised. So he is crazy enough to knife people, but he has enough control to stop mid frenzy.
That’s is a very dangerous… predator?
Actually, first thing I thought of when I heard about it was drug deal gone bad/revenge for drug related dealings gone bad. Expected to hear it involved the "usual suspects" and was in a crappy part of town, case closed. Seeing the victims and the location and such, I don't think that's the case anymore. Maybe someone in the house even sold some drugs to other college kids and got on the wrong side of the supplier, but send someone to kill 4 people with a knife? There's very few people, even hardened criminals, in the US capable of that level of violence. If it is of the drug related revenge thing, perhaps more then one killer.
Shooting someone is one thing, killing someone with a knife is another thing, killing four people with a knife and (apparently) calmly leave and not tell anyone, etc, is a whole other thing.
I don't know why exactly, but I feel this person is a serial killer from south of the border where knife culture exists and he's comfortable with using one. Others here had mentioned someone with extensive blade use via animals and such.
That is simply by numbers the most likely I think, but I don't overlook the Islamic "refugees" who form a sizable pool also.
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-01-22, 11:34
Actually, first thing I thought of when I heard about it was drug deal gone bad/revenge for drug related dealings gone bad. Expected to hear it involved the "usual suspects" and was in a crappy part of town, case closed. Seeing the victims and the location and such, I don't think that's the case anymore. Maybe someone in the house even sold some drugs to other college kids and got on the wrong side of the supplier, but send someone to kill 4 people with a knife? There's very few people, even hardened criminals, in the US capable of that level of violence. If it is of the drug related revenge thing, perhaps more then one killer.
Shooting someone is one thing, killing someone with a knife is another thing, killing four people with a knife and (apparently) calmly leave and not tell anyone, etc, is a whole other thing.
And that’s the thing, isn’t it?
john armond
12-01-22, 11:43
This is a straight up psychopathic predator out of a bad movie, a handful of such types in US history. That he killed women and a man, I also think is very telling. Maybe just wrong place at the wrong time and was not intended target per se, but I'm currently assuming he's not just targeting young attractive women due to hatred for them (a common theme with serial killers), and men are on the target list too.
Again, that seems to me a very rare individual the likes of which I can't even recall in other serial killers of the past who either targeted women exclusively, and or, used a firearm if men/women were targets. A killer who used a blade on men and women in modern history?
The Zodiac Killer used guns and knives on both men and women. One incident he walked up to a couple in costume with gun drawn and after both people were tied up stabbed them each multiple times. Both victims survived the initial stabbing, but the woman eventually slipped int a coma and never regained consciousness. Not the same as Idaho, but it has occurred...extremely rarely though
That is simply by numbers the most likely I think, but I don't overlook the Islamic "refugees" who form a sizable pool also.
All possible. For what ever reason, south of the border is strong in my head.
And that’s the thing, isn’t it?
The basic drug related gone bad thing just does not add up there to me.
The Zodiac Killer used guns and knives on both men and women. One incident he walked up to a couple in costume with gun drawn and after both people were tied up stabbed them each multiple times. Both victims survived the initial stabbing, but the woman eventually slipped int a coma and never regained consciousness. Not the same as Idaho, but it has occurred...extremely rarely though
Even among serial killers rare, and they are very rare individuals.
Both Speck and Bundy come to mind.
if it isn't "Targeted", then do these musrders begin to align with other knife murders and assaults in the area?
How many men did either of them kill? There were some similar events in the region as I understand it, posted in this thread, LE downplay the possible connection, but didn't rule it out either. Man serial killers do move to a new area to hunt.
Many people make the assumption that the killer is male. Too much info currently withheld by the investigation to make that assumption.
Averageman
12-01-22, 14:57
Many people make the assumption that the killer is male. Too much info currently withheld by the investigation to make that assumption.
Required Upper Body Strength would eliminate 99% of Women.
Many people make the assumption that the killer is male. Too much info currently withheld by the investigation to make that assumption.
All things considered, I'll say there's a 99.9% chance it was male/men. I suspect that's about as safe an assumption as gun control advocates don't know a thing about guns.
I think the cops know some significant info they aren’t letting out the the public. A member of my family is a sergeant in a PD that is working with Moscow PD. My wife pressed him for the info, but they are not spilling any beans. Another friend works for the state police lab, and they are only giving very select people access to info and even crime scene photos. I guess blood was leaking out of the house there was so much.
My roommate was friends with one of the girls. She was planning on moving to Texas and was only back to retrieve a few things. Apparently her and another girl were in the same bed. It makes me think the stalker theory has merit as a potential killer wouldn’t have another chance to see her after she moved. I also think it was someone in the Greek system if it was the case. I have doubts it was a serial killer, but it’s the next best explanation after my theory I think.
I’m hoping that the investigation is progressing. This hits pretty close to home for many of us in North Idaho.
I think the cops know some significant info they aren’t letting out the the public. A member of my family is a sergeant in a PD that is working with Moscow PD. My wife pressed him for the info, but they are not spilling any beans. Another friend works for the state police lab, and they are only giving very select people access to info and even crime scene photos. I guess blood was leaking out of the house there was so much.
My roommate was friends with one of the girls. She was planning on moving to Texas and was only back to retrieve a few things. Apparently her and another girl were in the same bed. It makes me think the stalker theory has merit as a potential killer wouldn’t have another chance to see her after she moved. I also think it was someone in the Greek system if it was the case. I have doubts it was a serial killer, but it’s the next best explanation after my theory I think.
I’m hoping that the investigation is progressing. This hits pretty close to home for many of us in North Idaho.
Who after killing 4 people with a knife went back his frat house, took a shower, and went to class the next day? The person capable of that is no typical stalker, angry ex, etc. Still not adding up for me.
I hope I'm wrong, but I think if they had the evidence on someone sufficient to make an arrest they would have by now. I think they have nadda evidence that leads to a specific suspect.
john armond
12-03-22, 14:32
I think the cops know some significant info they aren’t letting out the the public. A member of my family is a sergeant in a PD that is working with Moscow PD. My wife pressed him for the info, but they are not spilling any beans. Another friend works for the state police lab, and they are only giving very select people access to info and even crime scene photos. I guess blood was leaking out of the house there was so much.
My roommate was friends with one of the girls. She was planning on moving to Texas and was only back to retrieve a few things. Apparently her and another girl were in the same bed. It makes me think the stalker theory has merit as a potential killer wouldn’t have another chance to see her after she moved. I also think it was someone in the Greek system if it was the case. I have doubts it was a serial killer, but it’s the next best explanation after my theory I think.
I’m hoping that the investigation is progressing. This hits pretty close to home for many of us in North Idaho.
I read somewhere online about the amount of blood and it leaking out the house. That makes the initial calls about an “unconscious” person seem weirder if true. Supposedly the unconscious person calls were made after not receiving a response to phone calls/text messages. If that were true, wouldn’t one of the roommates have simply gone in the bedroom to wake them up. If there was so much blood, they would have surely seen it from outside the room if they didn’t go inside it. Or did they call 911 to report the unconscious person while the caller was still in their room and never actually checked on the victim.
Weird one way or another
In one of the press releases the cops said the 911 call was made from a renter of the house. Multiple people spoke with the dispatcher. What I was told early on was a friend was going to go shopping with one of the girls and when she didn’t show or answer the friend went over to the house.
Who after killing 4 people with a knife went back his frat house, took a shower, and went to class the next day? The person capable of that is no typical stalker, angry ex, etc. Still not adding up for me.
I hope I'm wrong, but I think if they had the evidence on someone sufficient to make an arrest they would have by now. I think they have nadda evidence that leads to a specific suspect.
The cop I talked to basically clammed up real bad when my wife spoke to him. They definitely have more info than we do. Will it result in anything? Idk. Like I said several pages ago, the house is right behind Greek row on campus. I used to live across the street from the house in an apartment. The tree and brush cover is thick, if anyone wanted to get out unseen it probably would not be hard.
As far as motive, I’m just shooting in the dark. But there were always broken out windows in that part of town. It was really bad, and cops were there all the time. It was because of the Greek students. They rent houses back there and have crazier parties. The fact that two occupants were left unharmed is very strange and makes me think the killer knew them all. He was meticulous enough to leave basically no trace, but not enough to leave no potential witnesses? The man was killed in a hallway. Makes me think that the two girls were first and likely the targets, Ethan and his girlfriend may have been left alone had he not come to find out what was going on.
The cop I talked to basically clammed up real bad when my wife spoke to him. They definitely have more info than we do. Will it result in anything? Idk. Like I said several pages ago, the house is right behind Greek row on campus. I used to live across the street from the house in an apartment. The tree and brush cover is thick, if anyone wanted to get out unseen it probably would not be hard.
As far as motive, I’m just shooting in the dark. But there were always broken out windows in that part of town. It was really bad, and cops were there all the time. It was because of the Greek students. They rent houses back there and have crazier parties. The fact that two occupants were left unharmed is very strange and makes me think the killer knew them all. He was meticulous enough to leave basically no trace, but not enough to leave no potential witnesses? The man was killed in a hallway. Makes me think that the two girls were first and likely the targets, Ethan and his girlfriend may have been left alone had he not come to find out what was going on.
There might be a few reasons why they are keeping it very quiet or acting like they have no clue.....
The man was killed in a hallway. Makes me think that the two girls were first and likely the targets, Ethan and his girlfriend may have been left alone had he not come to find out what was going on.
That is significant. I had imagined he had his throat cut in bed, keeping it quiet. If there was a fight in the hall how the hell did two other occupants not hear it, and how did the killer avoid leaving some trace DNA? Maybe he really is top tier predator as earlier supposed.
The cop I talked to basically clammed up real bad when my wife spoke to him. They definitely have more info than we do. Will it result in anything? Idk. Like I said several pages ago, the house is right behind Greek row on campus. I used to live across the street from the house in an apartment. The tree and brush cover is thick, if anyone wanted to get out unseen it probably would not be hard.
As far as motive, I’m just shooting in the dark. But there were always broken out windows in that part of town. It was really bad, and cops were there all the time. It was because of the Greek students. They rent houses back there and have crazier parties. The fact that two occupants were left unharmed is very strange and makes me think the killer knew them all. He was meticulous enough to leave basically no trace, but not enough to leave no potential witnesses? The man was killed in a hallway. Makes me think that the two girls were first and likely the targets, Ethan and his girlfriend may have been left alone had he not come to find out what was going on.
I see the GDI vs. Greek thing is alive and well. I lived in Borah Hall my first year and off campus my second. Sounds like you're younger than me by quite a bit, but I ran into plenty of weird dudes in the dorms, off campus and in the frats when going to school in Moscow. There have been several college killings similar to this and all the perps were not other college students.
Who knows? Maybe this will go unsolved until a deathbed confession 50 years from now.
Averageman
12-07-22, 15:22
I believe this is now a cold case.
I believe this is now a cold case.
It's only been 3 weeks.
Cold case? Id bet a paycheck they still have a huge amount of evidence needing processing.
Cold case? Id bet a paycheck they still have a huge amount of evidence needing processing.
I'd bet a paycheck if they had a suspect they had enough evidence to charge, they would have by now. 3 weeks is a life time for such a crime and obviously it's getting all resources from state, feds, and locals. Maybe some fingerprints will pop up after they run them or DNA etc, of which no doubt there's a lot of it, but does not smell right.
One of the rare times I hope I'm wrong.
Planned murders by strangers are rarely solved. This is beginning to look more like a spree/serial killer. If he's not connected to their social circle, he might not be found until he slips up next time.
Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk
My wife has been 35 minutes from Moscow for the last 2 months tending to some property we have there, she has a gun, but I am VERY concerned for her safety. There's a slasher on loose.
If she doesn’t have a good dog to go with that gun, I’d invest in a portable audible alarm system that can be connected to the points of entry. Even if it doesn’t deter an attacker, it buys critical moments to gin up the OODA Loop and be ready to defend.
https://www.newsweek.com/idaho-police-release-biggest-breakthrough-yet-murder-case-1765697
Looking for people in a white car…
Averageman
12-09-22, 02:56
I'd bet a paycheck if they had a suspect they had enough evidence to charge, they would have by now. 3 weeks is a life time for such a crime and obviously it's getting all resources from state, feds, and locals. Maybe some fingerprints will pop up after they run them or DNA etc, of which no doubt there's a lot of it, but does not smell right.
One of the rare times I hope I'm wrong.
THIS !
Three weeks in and essentially they have nothing. No one will be caught for some time.
This guy will be caught doing it again and far away.
I think in general crime shows on TV have raised the expectations of the public. TV cops can solve a murder in 60 minutes less commercials. Real cops solving real crimes can't compete.
Everything I see tells me this is one of the most difficult types of cases to break. If this was a jealous ex it would be over by now, but a "stranger" going all Norman Bates is tough. It sucks but that seems to be the case here. Now I hope that any inexperience by local LE has not made it more difficult, but it's possible. Even IF it is the case you can't really lay this at their feet. Who in the F is ready to deal with a scene like this. Coming off a night of scratching tickets, herding drunk kids and BAM.
I think in general crime shows on TV have raised the expectations of the public.
Maybe for dumb asses. I watch some of those shows, and when I see them walking through the warehouse full of cold case files/boxes, I think a lot of people got away with a lot of bad stuff.
Maybe for dumb asses. I watch some of those shows, and when I see them walking through the warehouse full of cold case files/boxes, I think a lot of people got away with a lot of bad stuff.
Nationally about 50% of murders end with a conviction.
Nationally about 50% of murders end with a conviction.
I'd have to guess that "now days" with DNA, Cell phones, and cameras everywhere, the conviction rate is way up compared to 80s/90s and earlier. 50% is not too hot though. Depends on the kind of murder I guess.
Averageman
12-09-22, 09:29
Nationally about 50% of murders end with a conviction.
Nationally; I would imagine that is because they were all caught at the scene either standing over the corpse or something silly like that.
Yes cameras help and so do cell phones and DNA. But anyone who decides to commit a murder and does a little research should know to leave their cellphone home and know the locations of the cameras along the route.
It seems like someone who wants to do it and plans it, is likely to get away with it.
I think this killer knows how to not leave any trace of forensic evidence linked to him at the murder scene. He didn't just get lucky. I would guess he is meticulous and cunning.
I would also bet he is far away from Idaho now.
Nationally; I would imagine that is because they were all caught at the scene either standing over the corpse or something silly like that.
Yes cameras help and so do cell phones and DNA. But anyone who decides to commit a murder and does a little research should know to leave their cellphone home and know the locations of the cameras along the route.
It seems like someone who wants to do it and plans it, is likely to get away with it.
True. However I watched a show where a guy borrowed and employee's truck, drove it near by, jumped on a bike with a hoody, pedaled the rest of the way to the scene of the killing, and reversed the trip to escape. I forget how, but a good detective pieced it together and they popped the guy.
Now expanding the investigation, but claiming they have many details not being released. The issue/Q is, are those details connecting a person or persons to the crime in any real way, or random details being held only the killer would know they hope to leverage? My feeling is the same: if they had any hard details that lead to anyone specifically, they'd have made an arrest:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5y_-k-rM5Q
Latest update (Dec/12) from Moscow Police Department Captain Roger Lanier:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTnAWOjH7FY
Former FBI behavioral analyst sounds correct to me: Planned, not some rage induced random spree thing, calculating, male, disdain for women, straight psychopath who is able to go right back to his life/work without acting out and being noticed by LE, neighbors, etc. Not the first time he's killed be it humans and animals. I say humans for sure and I'm guessing he's not from the US originally:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oqU-OykAP8
Former FBI behavioral analyst sounds correct to me: Planned, not some rage induced random spree thing, calculating, male, disdain for women, straight psychopath who is able to go right back to his life/work without acting out and being noticed by LE, neighbors, etc. Not the first time he's killed be it humans and animals. I say humans for sure and I'm guessing he's not from the US originally:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oqU-OykAP8
You thinking sicario type, or something different?
hotbiggun42
12-13-22, 15:35
Sounds like a random serial killer with no connections to the victims.
Who am i kidding, i dont have a clue.
You thinking sicario type, or something different?
I'm thinking serial killer from south of the border. Clearly from a knife oriented culture who has killed before with a knife or similar metal pointed object. Unless there's similar crimes in other states they have not connected to this yet, then possibly from US, but this not his first time.
I'm thinking serial killer from south of the border. Clearly from a knife oriented culture who has killed before with a knife or similar metal pointed object. Unless there's similar crimes in other states they have not connected to this yet, then possibly from US, but this not his first time.
Why do you think this was someone from south of the border
titsonritz
12-13-22, 19:19
Richard Ramirez type.
El Vaquero
12-13-22, 21:47
I’m going with sicko college kid doing it for a thrill thinking he won’t get caught. Sort of like the movie Scream.
Why do you think this was someone from south of the border
If from a knife culture, by the numbers, that would be the most likely. Not his first time, but we don't have other murders unsolved with that MO far as I'm aware. Where did he get the practice? Two, just a hunch on my part.
I heard they bagged the victims hands at the scene. Good idea. Hopefully someone who went down fighting scratched the killer. Or maybe he cut himself in the attacks.
Is it possible that maybe the investigators found forensic evidence with the killers DNA, but it is just not in the data base?
I heard they bagged the victims hands at the scene. Good idea. Hopefully someone who went down fighting scratched the killer. Or maybe he cut himself in the attacks.
Is it possible that maybe the investigators found forensic evidence with the killers DNA, but it is just not in the data base?
I would really like to know if there is even such a thing as a "DNA database" I suspect not outside of previously convicted sex offenders. I've been told that a searchable database for fingerprints isn't actually a thing, and I am doubtful that DNA is either. Hell when you hear about DNA matches to cold cases it usually seems to be that they compared a suspect to some genealogy outfits information, not some vast LE database.
I would really like to know if there is even such a thing as a "DNA database" I suspect not outside of previously convicted sex offenders. I've been told that a searchable database for fingerprints isn't actually a thing, and I am doubtful that DNA is either. Hell when you hear about DNA matches to cold cases it usually seems to be that they compared a suspect to some genealogy outfits information, not some vast LE database.
There are databases for DNA and fingerprints. DNA will be taken for various felony crimes, not just sex offenders.
I would really like to know if there is even such a thing as a "DNA database" I suspect not outside of previously convicted sex offenders. I've been told that a searchable database for fingerprints isn't actually a thing, and I am doubtful that DNA is either. Hell when you hear about DNA matches to cold cases it usually seems to be that they compared a suspect to some genealogy outfits information, not some vast LE database.
That DNA database is called Codis.
That DNA database is called Codis.
And AFIS is the fingerprint database, which is being upgraded to the IAFIS/NGI system.
https://www.fbi.gov/how-we-can-help-you/need-an-fbi-service-or-more-information/freedom-of-informationprivacy-act/department-of-justice-fbi-privacy-impact-assessments/iafis-ngi-biometric-interoperability
I would really like to know if there is even such a thing as a "DNA database" I suspect not outside of previously convicted sex offenders. I've been told that a searchable database for fingerprints isn't actually a thing, and I am doubtful that DNA is either. Hell when you hear about DNA matches to cold cases it usually seems to be that they compared a suspect to some genealogy outfits information, not some vast LE database.
You seem to be dismissive of the power of that. Pardon me if I am mistaken. Otherwise consider watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT18KJouHWg
Averageman
12-14-22, 14:31
I heard they bagged the victims hands at the scene. Good idea. Hopefully someone who went down fighting scratched the killer. Or maybe he cut himself in the attacks.
Is it possible that maybe the investigators found forensic evidence with the killers DNA, but it is just not in the data base?
Kind of depends on them bringing A knife or grabbing one out of the kitchen.
Use a kitchen knife and there is a good chance your hand will run up on the blade and bleed. Bring a knife and you've thought this out a bit.
titsonritz
12-14-22, 14:55
I heard they bagged the victims hands at the scene. Good idea. Hopefully someone who went down fighting scratched the killer. Or maybe he cut himself in the attacks.
Is it possible that maybe the investigators found forensic evidence with the killers DNA, but it is just not in the data base?
It's not a good idea, it is SOP.
Use a kitchen knife and there is a good chance your hand will run up on the blade and bleed. Bring a knife and you've thought this out a bit.
The deep heel and bolster of a typical Western chef's knife would seem to protect the hand better than a lot of hunting knives.
There are databases for DNA and fingerprints. DNA will be taken for various felony crimes, not just sex offenders.
That DNA database is called Codis.
And AFIS is the fingerprint database, which is being upgraded to the IAFIS/NGI system.
https://www.fbi.gov/how-we-can-help-you/need-an-fbi-service-or-more-information/freedom-of-informationprivacy-act/department-of-justice-fbi-privacy-impact-assessments/iafis-ngi-biometric-interoperability
I knew they existed, but my interpretation of what I was told is that (at least with fingerprints) is that it was still a fairly slow process and really worked best if one was confirming or excluding a known suspect. My understanding is that the TV style "run the print through the database - DING - BOOK HIM!" was not a real world thing.
The deep heel and bolster of a typical Western chef's knife would seem to protect the hand better than a lot of hunting knives.
Everything we have heard about the wounds leads me to think its a larger knife, the worst injuries were described as a mix of tears along with knife wounds. I think a kitchen knife would break.
The deep heel and bolster of a typical Western chef's knife would seem to protect the hand better than a lot of hunting knives.
One of the most heinous murders I’ve seen was with a western style chef’s knife. Stabbed the guy 40-something times in the torso and tried to saw his head off at the back of his neck. Hispanic dudes. Caught him ****ing his baby momma.
Anyway, he cut his hand in the process. Blood is slippery. Busted at the hospital when he showed up in the ER in the room next to where they were coding his victim.
Kind of depends on them bringing A knife or grabbing one out of the kitchen.
Use a kitchen knife and there is a good chance your hand will run up on the blade and bleed. Bring a knife and you've thought this out a bit.
Many knife murderers have used a knife from the kitchen of the stabbing victim.
But I think this guy brought his own knife. Just a guess.
Averageman
12-14-22, 15:28
The deep heel and bolster of a typical Western chef's knife would seem to protect the hand better than a lot of hunting knives.
Imagine you are cutting wood with an axe, consider that amount of force. Now imagine instead of an axe you have a large Chef's knife in your hand and you're swinging like that.
Your hand is going to run up on that blade as soon as it gets blood slick. That guard or quillon on a knife is there to stop that and Chef's knives don't have them.
Averageman
12-14-22, 15:29
Many knife killers have used a knife from the kitchen of the stabbing victim.
But I think this guy brought his own knife. Just a guess.
And many of those Killers were caught because their hand ran up the blade.
And many of those Killers were caught because their hand ran up the blade.
Definitely. The first thought I had was he may very well have cut himself. Check every drop of blood in that house. There was blood all over the place on two levels.
I'm sure they did that.
Definitely. The first thought I had was he may very well have cut himself. Check every drop of blood in that house. There was blood all over the place on two levels.
I'm sure they did that.
Can you imagine how much the lab testing alone is going to cost on this case? No way Moscow, ID can afford it, so they should be begging ID and the Feds to take this one over.
Many knife murderers have used a knife from the kitchen of the stabbing victim.
But I think this guy brought his own knife. Just a guess.
If he'd used a kitchen knife, I bet he'd have left it there too. That's my guess.
Averageman
12-14-22, 18:00
If he'd used a kitchen knife, I bet he'd have left it there too. That's my guess.
If it was there when he arrived there would be very little reason to leave the house with it.
Another thing to think about the geometry of Kitchen knives is somewhat different than hunting or fighting knives. Most kitchen knives aren't able to withstand the rigors required to kill people.
Put a full tang bowie style knife of substancial size in a vise, how much pressure is required to break the blade? Now go get your standard kitchen butcher knife and do the same thing. You're kitchen ware is going to fail before your Bowie.
It's very likely that whatever knife was used it has been damaged in a unique way, a chip from glancing off of a bone a tip snapping off during a stab from going into bone.
Just thinking that he seems to either be very prepared for this or extreamly lucky.
If you're lucky, you break in to the House and get a knife from a kitchen door. If you're prepared for this, you brought your knife with you.
I'm sure that if he is really "out there in serial killer world" he's getting a woody everytime he touches that knife.
Aren’t they still thinking Kabar or similar thicker blade? I think it was a recent article I read the ME came out and said this due to the more shallow, somewhat more blunt stab wounds. Where a kitchen knife or such would’ve made more thin, deeper slicing stab wounds.
Averageman
12-14-22, 18:40
Aren’t they still thinking Kabar or similar thicker blade? I think it was a recent article I read the ME came out and said this due to the more shallow, somewhat more blunt stab wounds. Where a kitchen knife or such would’ve made more thin, deeper slicing stab wounds.
There are a lot of off the shelf knives that people might call "K-Bar" style. I would guess it's a very rough description of what the "People in Charge" might call a "Bowie" style knife.
I'm pretty sure after the autopsies they've got a pretty good idea of the size and blade profile, but other than the immeadiate description of a "K-Bar" style knife, I have yet to hear more since the autopsies have been completed.
Just as a guess, I would say early on that someone saw the amount of blood and the wounds and said "K-Bar" without a lot of science behind that conclusion.
john armond
12-14-22, 19:02
There are a lot of off the shelf knives that people might call "K-Bar" style. I would guess it's a very rough description of what the "People in Charge" might call a "Bowie" style knife.
I'm pretty sure after the autopsies they've got a pretty good idea of the size and blade profile, but other than the immeadiate description of a "K-Bar" style knife, I have yet to hear more since the autopsies have been completed.
Just as a guess, I would say early on that someone saw the amount of blood and the wounds and said "K-Bar" without a lot of science behind that conclusion.
Initially the news was using K-Bar and “Rambo style” interchangeably. Not sure if this was because of an official description or the news simply going for style points. I’m thinking the latter.
I think a kitchen knife would break.
Some kitchen knives are a lot tougher than you think.
Imagine you are cutting wood with an axe, consider that amount of force. Now imagine instead of an axe you have a large Chef's knife in your hand and you're swinging like that.
Your hand is going to run up on that blade as soon as it gets blood slick. That guard or quillon on a knife is there to stop that and Chef's knives don't have them.
A tall Chef's knife with a bolster effectively has a half guard. Sure it's not a basket hilt but it's as much protection from sliding down the blade as most combat knives.
https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/6991086a-9051-4542-9f00-79f34b90414a_1.858a971f64a8059fbdff8abaed85db9a.jpeg?odnHeight=2000&odnWidth=2000&odnBg=FFFFFF
https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-t7tzgd0/images/stencil/original/products/9915/15613/ka02-1218__47328.1411047438.jpg?c=2&imbypass=on&imbypass=on
Some kitchen knives are a lot tougher than you think.
A tall Chef's knife with a bolster effectively has a half guard. Sure it's not a basket hilt but it's as much protection from sliding down the blade as most combat knives.
https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/6991086a-9051-4542-9f00-79f34b90414a_1.858a971f64a8059fbdff8abaed85db9a.jpeg?odnHeight=2000&odnWidth=2000&odnBg=FFFFFF
https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-t7tzgd0/images/stencil/original/products/9915/15613/ka02-1218__47328.1411047438.jpg?c=2&imbypass=on&imbypass=on
But we are talking about college students own stuff being used against them right? I never had Wusthof or Kramer knives when I was in college. Not that these kids didn’t, but they probably Walmart crap steel knives that were dull. I think we would have at least a knife tip in a body at that point.
But we are talking about college students own stuff being used against them right? I never had Wusthof or Kramer knives when I was in college. Not that these kids didn’t, but they probably Walmart crap steel knives that were dull. I think we would have at least a knife tip in a body at that point.
The one used in the murder I described above was a cheapo. It looked intact, as far as I could tell with it being covered in blood, which surprised me as much as it would surprise you. This was in a shitty singlewide trailer, and the fight appeared to have travelled from the bedroom into a narrow hallway with the washer and dryer. 10 or 15 feet of fighting with grown manual labor dudes.
https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/6991086a-9051-4542-9f00-79f34b90414a_1.858a971f64a8059fbdff8abaed85db9a.jpeg?odnHeight=2000&odnWidth=2000&odnBg=FFFFFF
You've been in my kitchen :) I love mine.
If it was there when he arrived there would be very little reason to leave the house with it.
Another thing to think about the geometry of Kitchen knives is somewhat different than hunting or fighting knives. Most kitchen knives aren't able to withstand the rigors required to kill people.
Put a full tang bowie style knife of substancial size in a vise, how much pressure is required to break the blade? Now go get your standard kitchen butcher knife and do the same thing. You're kitchen ware is going to fail before your Bowie.
It's very likely that whatever knife was used it has been damaged in a unique way, a chip from glancing off of a bone a tip snapping off during a stab from going into bone.
Just thinking that he seems to either be very prepared for this or extreamly lucky.
If you're lucky, you break in to the House and get a knife from a kitchen door. If you're prepared for this, you brought your knife with you.
I'm sure that if he is really "out there in serial killer world" he's getting a woody everytime he touches that knife.
That's my point. He didn't show up without a weapon assuming/hoping he'd find a kitchen knife to kill 4 kids. He came with his weapon and he left with it is my thinking. It's a weapon he's comfortable with and has used before.
What information do we know for certain about the case at this point? We were told multiple victims were killed with an edged weapon. What else do we know for certain? How do we know for certain a female or multiple attackers were not involved?
A thorough investigation of the backgrounds of each of the victims would be in order to develop workable investigative leads. Ingress and egress of the crime scene by the suspect(s) would also be a good way to develop workable leads. Unless the caller knows the suspect(s), leads called in by the public are not likely to be fruitful.
Speculation can steer an investigation in the wrong direction, and you do not want to rule out any possibility that cannot be excluded with reasonable certainty.
This is certainly an interesting case to follow.
Not much talk about the fact that one of the murder victims mother was arrested on drug charges 6 days after the murder, and is held on 50K bond. And someone said her arrest record goes back several years.
Does this have any relevance to the murders?
What information do we know for certain about the case at this point? We were told multiple victims were killed with an edged weapon. What else do we know for certain? How do we know for certain a female or multiple attackers were not involved?
A thorough investigation of the backgrounds of each of the victims would be in order to develop workable investigative leads. Ingress and egress of the crime scene by the suspect(s) would also be a good way to develop workable leads. Unless the caller knows the suspect(s), leads called in by the public are not likely to be fruitful.
Speculation can steer an investigation in the wrong direction, and you do not want to rule out any possibility that cannot be excluded with reasonable certainty.
This is certainly an interesting case to follow.
Very little as far as I can ascertain. I see mentioning of types of wounds and such here, where the male was found, etc, but I don't know where that's coming from as they don't supply a source. I have found very little myself in terms of hard verified info on the case. I can understand why they'd hold back info while they develop evidence etc, but I'm unclear why they could not/are not, supplying info such as if the killer left any of his own blood, DNA, weapon used, etc. Possible it's still being run in the labs, but I'd think that being they have the full resources of the FBI, state labs, etc, that aspect would exist by now.
My sinking suspicions are they really have nadda to go on, and that really sucks.
The knife use doesn't immediately point to male and (depending on mental leaps) may actually tend to be more often female.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/wo.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjVlq6Rh_z7AhWqUt8KHVM5CYIQFnoECA8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw0gaGl4JD55m8C2YrLcqy-3
bjs.ojp.gov
In case the link fails, search might get it.
https://bjs.ojp.gov › pub › pdfPDF
Women Offenders - Bureau of Justice Statistics
Averageman
12-15-22, 12:43
That's my point. He didn't show up without a weapon assuming/hoping he'd find a kitchen knife to kill 4 kids. He came with his weapon and he left with it is my thinking. It's a weapon he's comfortable with and has used before.
Exactly, it's looking more and more like he came in with a plan which included his weapon of choice.
I'm sorry, but you're not going to go in there without a knife and hope some College students own a $85.00 Wusthoff so you don't run your hand up the blade.
Averageman
12-15-22, 12:45
Very little as far as I can ascertain. I see mentioning of types of wounds and such here, where the male was found, etc, but I don't know where that's coming from as they don't supply a source. I have found very little myself in terms of hard verified info on the case. I can understand why they'd hold back info while they develop evidence etc, but I'm unclear why they could not/are not, supplying info such as if the killer left any of his own blood, DNA, weapon used, etc. Possible it's still being run in the labs, but I'd think that being they have the full resources of the FBI, state labs, etc, that aspect would exist by now.
My sinking suspicions are they really have nadda to go on, and that really sucks.
Yes, I would guess this is why they are so tight lipped.
Averageman
12-15-22, 12:50
Not much talk about the fact that one of the murder victims mother was arrested on drug charges 6 days after the murder, and is held on 50K bond. And someone said her arrest record goes back several years.
Does this have any relevance to the murders?
This is very intresting to me.
Was her Daughter one of the first ones killed?
I ask because maybe someone went in there to set an example to Mom that they weren't F'ing around, shut up, pay up and ride off. They went in to kill the kid to set an example and the other two walked in to a drug murder in progress and were killed because of it.
Imagine you're in there to shut up Mom by killing her kid. Well, because she's in ther with a friend you have to kill them both. While killing both of them, two more walk in.
The knife use doesn't immediately point to male and (depending on mental leaps) may actually tend to be more often female.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/wo.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjVlq6Rh_z7AhWqUt8KHVM5CYIQFnoECA8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw0gaGl4JD55m8C2YrLcqy-3
bjs.ojp.gov
In case the link fails, search might get it.
https://bjs.ojp.gov › pub › pdfPDF
Women Offenders - Bureau of Justice Statistics
It would be poor form to ignore the possibility it was a woman, the statistical likelihood has to be close to zero. The % of women who killed more than one person (and one an adult male no less) with an edged weapon in a single event in the past few decades in the US must be so low it's also essentially zero. Person must expend a lot of energy and needed strength and pure rage to kill 4 people with a knife. It was a dude, perhaps several dudes.
This is very intresting to me.
Was her Daughter one of the first ones killed?
I ask because maybe someone went in there to set an example to Mom that they weren't F'ing around, shut up, pay up and ride off. They went in to kill the kid to set an example and the other two walked in to a drug murder in progress and were killed because of it.
Imagine you're in there to shut up Mom by killing her kid. Well, because she's in ther with a friend you have to kill them both. While killing both of them, two more walk in.
Her father got the autopsy report. He says she went down fighting to the bitter end and had multiple stab wounds and defensive wounds. He said "she had 'bruises' consistent with her furious battle to save her own life".
Bless her heart.
What information do we know for certain about the case at this point? We were told multiple victims were killed with an edged weapon. What else do we know for certain? How do we know for certain a female or multiple attackers were not involved?
This article (https://www.straight.com/news/1278176/serial-killers-sometimes-operate-teams-so-if-convicted-kam-mcleod-and-bryer-schmegelsky) states "A 2004 study of 49 cases, involving 114 offenders, found that 26 percent of all the serial killers were operating in tandem with others. Women were the partners in 17 of these cases." It doesn't cite a source. That's more than I would have guessed, if accurate.
Exactly, it's looking more and more like he came in with a plan which included his weapon of choice.
I'm sorry, but you're not going to go in there without a knife and hope some College students own a $85.00 Wusthoff so you don't run your hand up the blade.
I did not mean to imply otherwise. Only that the weapon used could be something like a chef's knife, and that that wouldn't necessarily result in the attacker cutting himself.
Her father got the autopsy report. He says she went down fighting to the bitter end and had multiple stab wounds and defensive wounds. He said "she had 'bruises' consistent with her furious battle to save her own life".
Bless her heart.
Hopefully then the poor kid at least has some of the monsters DNA, maybe under her nails, etc. If that leads to an arrest some day, a very small silver lining from a horrible event.
john armond
12-15-22, 14:09
This is very intresting to me.
Was her Daughter one of the first ones killed?
I ask because maybe someone went in there to set an example to Mom that they weren't F'ing around, shut up, pay up and ride off. They went in to kill the kid to set an example and the other two walked in to a drug murder in progress and were killed because of it.
Imagine you're in there to shut up Mom by killing her kid. Well, because she's in ther with a friend you have to kill them both. While killing both of them, two more walk in.
I saw on Reddit that the mother of one victim and the stepmother of another victim were both arrested on drug related charges either shortly before or after the murders. Of course, this is Reddit, and I didn't see any confirmation of the statements. Also, no mention of what the charges were. There is a big difference between getting caught with a dime bag and trafficking. It could be nothing or it could be something. I fear we either won't know for a long time or may never know.
Averageman
12-15-22, 14:29
I saw on Reddit that the mother of one victim and the stepmother of another victim were both arrested on drug related charges either shortly before or after the murders. Of course, this is Reddit, and I didn't see any confirmation of the statements. Also, no mention of what the charges were. There is a big difference between getting caught with a dime bag and trafficking. It could be nothing or it could be something. I fear we either won't know for a long time or may never know.
This, if true could very well explain it all.
"There is a big difference between getting caught with a dime bag and trafficking. It could be nothing or it could be something. I fear we either won't know for a long time or may never know."
It could be nothing, or it could be as little as several tens of thousands of Dollars.
A Mid Level guy might be willing to off a Kid to make a point. You owe me Fifty Thousand and don't want to pay? I bet I can make a point here and make you want to beg to pay.
Either way it's too easy to get out of hand, one turns into two, two turns in to four?
It would be poor form to ignore the possibility it was a woman, the statistical likelihood has to be close to zero. The % of women who killed more than one person (and one an adult male no less) with an edged weapon in a single event in the past few decades in the US must be so low it's also essentially zero. Person must expend a lot of energy and needed strength and pure rage to kill 4 people with a knife. It was a dude, perhaps several dudes.
If they were coherent then yes. The 2 survivors allegedly sleeping through it(and seemingly some of the victims) makes that seem somewhat iffy assuming the survivors aren't somehow responsible.
I recall a few people in college dorms legitimately(versus just ignoring it) sleeping through alarms in college dorms that would be on sound level par with screaming in pain, but it seems unlikely to get that many people in a single dwelling that could sleep through it.
john armond
12-16-22, 07:44
If they were coherent then yes. The 2 survivors allegedly sleeping through it(and seemingly some of the victims) makes that seem somewhat iffy assuming the survivors aren't somehow responsible.
I recall a few people in college dorms legitimately(versus just ignoring it) sleeping through alarms in college dorms that would be on sound level par with screaming in pain, but it seems unlikely to get that many people in a single dwelling that could sleep through it.
My daughter has slept through the smoke detector inside her room going off. This happened when she was a pre-teen. She is a teenager now and would probably sleep through it at this point. Pretty scary actually.
A 28 year old male taken into custody in Pennsylvania
“ Authorities have a suspect in custody in the Nov. 13 murders of four University of Idaho students, a law enforcement source told Fox News Digital.“
“A 28-year-old man was arrested Friday in the Poconos in connection with the murders of four University of Idaho students, law enforcement sources tell ABC News.
Action News has confirmed the man's name is Bryan Kohberger“
https://6abc.com/idaho-murders-arrest-pocono-mountains-pa-university-of-poconos/12630750/
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-30-22, 11:17
Not much on the suspect…
Kudos to law enforcement if this does indeed turn out to be the killer.
Not much on the suspect…
They have released a name and he was a WSU doctoral student.
Apparently worked at Pleasant Valley School District in a security position:
https://www.tnonline.com/20210830/pleasant-valley-hires-principal-for-intermediate-school/
https://www.poconorecord.com/story/business/names-faces/2018/12/09/life-in-his-hands/6739009007/
Andy
Gabriel556
12-30-22, 11:24
I’m glad they made an arrest. It will be interesting to find out how a 28 year old associated with these victims. I have a feeling we will find out there is someone who had this guy on their radar.
Not much on the suspect…
This might be suspect, a criminology student
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10158608472680518&set=a.10150258896550518
Gabriel556
12-30-22, 11:45
That looks like the same guy. What better way to refine your skills than study them from the other side in college. I wonder if this was his first attack or the first he got caught in. Imagine if he was deranged enough to do this as a “How to get away with murder” type thesis.
I’m glad they made an arrest. It will be interesting to find out how a 28 year old associated with these victims. I have a feeling we will find out there is someone who had this guy on their radar.
I wouldn’t be too unusual for a 28yo doctoral student to be in contact with younger students. They often tutor or sub in for professors.
The suspect went to WSU which is only 6.7 miles from Idaho U.
Gabriel556
12-30-22, 12:32
I wouldn’t be too unusual for a 28yo doctoral student to be in contact with younger students. They often tutor or sub in for professors.
That explains it. When I posted that, the correlation wasn’t made get in the articles I read. Will be good for the families to have some resolution here. I hope this is it, even if it isn’t closure.
titsonritz
12-30-22, 12:53
Every time I've seen this thread pop up to the top I'd hope they found the guy, today it came true. It is going to be interesting to see if this guy has more "experience" under his belt.
A 25 year old male taken into custody in Pennsylvania
“ Authorities have a suspect in custody in the Nov. 13 murders of four University of Idaho students, a law enforcement source told Fox News Digital.“
“A 28-year-old man was arrested Friday in the Poconos in connection with the murders of four University of Idaho students, law enforcement sources tell ABC News.
Action News has confirmed the man's name is Bryan Kohberger“
https://6abc.com/idaho-murders-arrest-pocono-mountains-pa-university-of-poconos/12630750/
That's great! I hope they got the POS. Will be very interesting details once exposed, assuming they have the killer.
Suspect was a PhD student in Department of Criminal Justice and Criminology at WSU.
It was reported that law enforcement also found the white Hyundai Elantra they had been looking for.
Averageman
12-30-22, 14:37
Very Impressive, I hope they have their Man.
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-30-22, 14:44
mark Furhman was on Fox and made a comment that the guy seemed like he was elitist from the surveys he had authored for his PhD work. Anyone have a line on those?
Found this:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11586173/Idaho-suspect-Bryan-Kohberger-criminal-studies-PhD-student.html
My guess is that he was maybe even going to write his thesis on this case- and maybe use all this now as his defense- “You can’t find the real killer, so you have to charge someone and this all because of my research..”
I will put money that the car was the link. Not sure what plates he had, but if they were PA plates then it was only a rear plate. Then you deduce how many states have only one plate. Maybe they caught a glimpse of the number? With today's data mining techniques you could run with that information. Then check to see if any cars fitting that description were registered at a local college, maybe make it narrower if you know it had to be from states that only had one plate (?).
I dunno, but I'll bet the car was the ticket.
Not a great source, but I saw someone comment on Facebook that they saw a Hyundai in PA with Washington state plates on it and sent in a tip.
I did not have PhD candidate/CJ student on my web sleuth bingo card. I just watched the presser, Chief Fry stated that they have the guy who committed these offenses. Sounds like he is absolutely sure.
If this is the guy, I was wrong about the whole frat bro idea. Sounds like a smart dude that’s completely psychotic and had homicidal ideation, probably for a while. I bet he fights extradition, but I really want to hear why he picked his victims and how he didn’t get caught at the scene.
Ted Bundy come to mind?
Yes, just less charming. I think he was just getting started but I doubt he will admit anything, just like Bundy. It’ll be a gruesome case if I’m right, from everything I’ve heard.
At the presser they said they got his DNA from the murder scene. Got him. Kudos to all involved.
My first thought was he cut himself. But then they said the one girl went down fighting. Maybe she got him with her fingernails.
Seeing as the suspect was getting a PhD in Criminal Justice and Criminology, it makes sense that they didn't find much evidence at the scene. My guess is he was very calculated and ensured he didn't leave much trace. Also, with no criminal record, even if he did leave any DNA at the scene, it sounds like he likely wasn't in any databases to give a positive match.
Glad they caught the POS. He deserves the death penalty IMO
ETA:
At the presser they said they got his DNA from the murder scene. Got him. Kudos to all involved.
My first thought was he cut himself. But then they said the one girl went down fighting. Maybe she got him with her fingernails.
Interesting they found DNA, I wonder if they didn't get a database match initially, since it took a while to actually catch the guy. Curious if the hit on the vehicle was the first lead, and then possibly matched DNA to family or something once they had him narrowed down. Guess we'll have to wait and see what comes out.
Seeing as the suspect was getting a PhD in Criminal Justice and Criminology, it makes sense that they didn't find much evidence at the scene. My guess is he was very calculated and ensured he didn't leave much trace. Also, with no criminal record, even if he did leave any DNA at the scene, it sounds like he likely wasn't in any databases to give a positive match.
Glad they caught the POS. He deserves the death penalty IMO
ETA:
Interesting they found DNA, I wonder if they didn't get a database match initially, since it took a while to actually catch the guy. Curious if the hit on the vehicle was the first lead, and then possibly matched DNA to family or something once they had him narrowed down. Guess we'll have to wait and see what comes out.
It's been reported that they had this guy under surveillance once he moved into PA.
I'm guessing they got his DNA from his trash. And it matched. Got him.
Seeing as the suspect was getting a PhD in Criminal Justice and Criminology, it makes sense that they didn't find much evidence at the scene. My guess is he was very calculated and ensured he didn't leave much trace. Also, with no criminal record, even if he did leave any DNA at the scene, it sounds like he likely wasn't in any databases to give a positive match.
Glad they caught the POS. He deserves the death penalty IMO
ETA:
Interesting they found DNA, I wonder if they didn't get a database match initially, since it took a while to actually catch the guy. Curious if the hit on the vehicle was the first lead, and then possibly matched DNA to family or something once they had him narrowed down. Guess we'll have to wait and see what comes out.
As an aside, while I totally feel for all the parents, I wonder if their media involvement and doubting the authorities actually hindered the case. I think everybody was in a big rush to judgement.
Some info:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bTslLi9sPU
Not a great source, but I saw someone comment on Facebook that they saw a Hyundai in PA with Washington state plates on it and sent in a tip.
I did not have PhD candidate/CJ student on my web sleuth bingo card. I just watched the presser, Chief Fry stated that they have the guy who committed these offenses. Sounds like he is absolutely sure.
If this is the guy, I was wrong about the whole frat bro idea. Sounds like a smart dude that’s completely psychotic and had homicidal ideation, probably for a while. I bet he fights extradition, but I really want to hear why he picked his victims and how he didn’t get caught at the scene.
Maybe he was at one of those parties and was spurned by one of those young hot chicks he later killed?
Idaho has the death penalty......I hope they use it if this proves to be the POS who committed the crime.
Did any of the podcast aficionado "web sleuths" ping this guy? Every armchair detective whoever watched a Netflix documentary was throwing their two cents all over the place, some were even outing people on social media. Hopefully the evidence is airtight and this guy burns.
Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk
Coal Dragger
12-30-22, 20:35
Maybe he was at one of those parties and was spurned by one of those young hot chicks he later killed?
Idaho has the death penalty......I hope they use it if this proves to be the POS who committed the crime.
Yep and Washington State has no death penalty.
Guess this guy wasn’t as thorough at research on that tidbit as he should have been.
Unconfirmed report, heard this on news channel when suspect arrested, suspect asked cops if anyone else arrested. What, accomplices?
They have executed a search warrant on his apartment in Washington and obviously his parent's house where he was "hiding" in PA. Since no details (duh!) of the murder scene were ever released, I've read where there were things found that came from the crime scene.
Without a doubt speculation is rampant, and this is brand-friggin' new information for us plebes today, but it looks like this asswipe has some explaining to do.
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-31-22, 01:09
Imagine every Proff that has ever taught him has to be, or really should be, questioning their understanding of crime and criminals...
Unconfirmed report, heard this on news channel when suspect arrested, suspect asked cops if anyone else arrested. What, accomplices?
That would be a great way to cast doubt on his working alone.
john armond
12-31-22, 22:55
That would be a great way to cast doubt on his working alone.
Convicts he asked to “help with a study?”
People that he went to high school with state he was socially awkward and bullied by females. Hatred for the "popular" girls, maybe?
Convicts he asked to “help with a study?”
Even if he worked alone, suggesting other people were involved casts doubt on the case.
john armond
01-01-23, 08:42
Even if he worked alone, suggesting other people were involved casts doubt on the case.
I totally get that. I was being a little sarcastic with my comment.
More details just up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg1finQ7uFQ
Thinking about this, I'm struggling to believe, if they got the right guy, that's his first time to being a murderer. Kill 4 people with a knife as someone who has never done anything like that before? What is the statistical likelihood of that? I'm wondering if any unsolved murders get connected to him. Someone who goes from 0 to 4 dead with a blade must be as rare as a unicorn, even rarer than a lone female serial killer. I will be very curious to hear his background story/history. I still feel like some pieces to this one does not fit until they fill in the dots. This one may set some precedence for FBI profilers in the future if it's as it currently appears.
Clearly, I don’t understand the fascination with this one.
Averageman
01-01-23, 13:59
They've certainly put all of their eggs in one basket havent they?
If you squint a bit you could say this guy even sort of looks like Ted Bundy.
Thinking about this, I'm struggling to believe, if they got the right guy, that's his first time to being a murderer. Kill 4 people with a knife as someone who has never done anything like that before? What is the statistical likelihood of that? I'm wondering if any unsolved murders get connected to him. Someone who goes from 0 to 4 dead with a blade must be as rare as a unicorn, even rarer than a lone female serial killer. I will be very curious to hear his background story/history. I still feel like some pieces to this one does not fit until they fill in the dots. This one may set some precedence for FBI profilers in the future if it's as it currently appears.
You can bet a shiny new dime that every police agency in the country with an open homicide case where an edged weapon was used has been watching this one. It would not be unusual for other agencies to request a chance to interview the suspect once Moscow PD is done with him.
You can bet a shiny new dime that every police agency in the country with an open homicide case where an edged weapon was used has been watching this one. It would not be unusual for other agencies to request a chance to interview the suspect once Moscow PD is done with him.
I recall there were even a few mentioned in the region when this event happened, but they were unclear if they were connected.
Clearly, I don’t understand the fascination with this one.
Sheer brutality of it, four stabbed to death with a knife, up close and personal. Hell, blood ran down the outside of the cinder block foundation of the house. That means there was a LOT of blood for that to happen.
Also, the forensics and/or ways he was caught.....DNA, "parallel construction", technology (cameras, plates, data mining, etc.). This will be a Netflix special some day I guarantee.
Sheer brutality of it, four stabbed to death with a knife, up close and personal. Hell, blood ran down the outside of the cinder block foundation of the house. That means there was a LOT of blood for that to happen.
Also, the forensics and/or ways he was caught.....DNA, "parallel construction", technology (cameras, plates, data mining, etc.). This will be a Netflix special some day I guarantee.
The 2 survivors and most of the victims allegedly sleeping through it is kind of interesting. Known a few adults I assume could sleep through something like that, just seems like long odds to get that many in one dwelling.
Either that or something induced maybe?
Based on killing deer, I don't even know if super efficient/fast killer(s) idea would fly considering the blood volume claimed unless the killer(s) took the time to drain them.
The 2 survivors and most of the victims allegedly sleeping through it is kind of interesting. Known a few adults I assume could sleep through something like that, just seems like long odds to get that many in one dwelling.
Either that or something induced maybe?
Based on killing deer, I don't even know if super efficient/fast killer(s) idea would fly considering the blood volume claimed unless the killer(s) took the time to drain them.
From what Ive seen several if not all of them were out drinking that night. There are videos all over the internet showing passed out drunk people sleeping through all sorts of crazy stuff.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-01-23, 21:25
The 2 survivors and most of the victims allegedly sleeping through it is kind of interesting. Known a few adults I assume could sleep through something like that, just seems like long odds to get that many in one dwelling.
Either that or something induced maybe?
Based on killing deer, I don't even know if super efficient/fast killer(s) idea would fly considering the blood volume claimed unless the killer(s) took the time to drain them.
Which would explain why the 911 was odd. THey seemed to think that she as passed out or something. Blood all over would have been a clue to something else.
As expected, FBI agent does not think it's likley killer goes zero to 4 people with a knife. The FBI appears to have used commercial DNA data base to connect him to relatives. That feels very 1984 to me...Finally, if the only evidence they have connecting him to the murder is familial DNA, I suspect a decent defense attorney will get an acquittal. Was there finger prints at least? Considering what he was studying, he'd have been a real idiot to leave finger prints.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9YK3BNANFk
Which would explain why the 911 was odd. THey seemed to think that she as passed out or something. Blood all over would have been a clue to something else.
Are we talking about how the call was put into the CAD, or the actual words of the caller?
As expected, FBI agent does not think it's likley killer goes zero to 4 people with a knife. The FBI appears to have used commercial DNA data base to connect him to relatives. That feels very 1984 to me...Finally, if the only evidence they have connecting him to the murder is familial DNA, I suspect a decent defense attorney will get an acquittal. Was there finger prints at least? Considering what he was studying, he'd have been a real idiot to leave finger prints.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9YK3BNANFk
For several reasons, I tend to give scientific evidence(including finger prints) much more weight towards proving someone didn't do it than proving they did.
The investigators will get a search warrant for the suspects DNA and match that to the suspect DNA found at the scene.
They will likely find victim DNA in his white Hyundai.
Might also have evidence after his cell phone is searched.
The investigators will get a search warrant for the suspects DNA and match that to the suspect DNA found at the scene.
They will likely find victim DNA in his white Hyundai.
Might also have evidence after his cell phone is searched.
If those dots are connected, no doubt, a much stronger case against him. I must add however, I'm very hesitant on to see convictions for such a serious crime based almost exclusively on DNA evidence. Hopefully, they get a confession, find a murder weapon, etc.
The investigators will get a search warrant for the suspects DNA and match that to the suspect DNA found at the scene.
They will likely find victim DNA in his white Hyundai.
Might also have evidence after his cell phone is searched.
Location tracking history on his cell phone(s) would be helpful. His Google account may have tracking history as well.
It might benefit the police to identify laptops he has used, the systems where he may have stored data, such as colleges and as many social media profiles that they can identify the suspect used. If he spent a significant amount of time in college libraries, their servers would be a good place to conduct a thorough search.
If the suspect is truly a serial killer, the police definitely need to search for trophies from his victims.
Averageman
01-02-23, 10:10
Location tracking history on his cell phone(s) would be helpful. His Google account may have tracking history as well.
It might benefit the police to identify laptops he has used, the systems where he may have stored data, such as colleges and as many social media profiles that they can identify the suspect used. If he spent a significant amount of time in college libraries, their servers would be a good place to conduct a thorough search.
If the suspect is truly a serial killer, the police definitely need to search for trophies from his victims.
This guy was studying criminology, he's very likely to have covered his tracks in some smart ways.
The FBI appears to have used commercial DNA data base to connect him to relatives. That feels very 1984 to me...Finally, if the only evidence they have connecting him to the murder is familial DNA, I suspect a decent defense attorney will get an acquittal.
They'll be able to get his actual DNA now that they have him in custody. Sounds like they had DNA from the scene but no database match, found this kid through the vehicle tip, and since he wasn't in any of the systems they had to go with the next best thing and match family DNA. Not the first time it's been done like that, and from what i hear, it's fairly effective.
At any rate, the detectives and Feds seem extremely certain he's the guy, so they must have something pretty concrete against him. But would be nice to find the murder weapon or get a confession.
It was leaked by someone that when they executed search warrants on his apartment in Washington, and his Parents house in PA where he was arrested, they found something that was taken from the murder scene.
If this is true it will help convict him.
I wonder what game he is playing......sounds like a Criminal Minds episode
They'll be able to get his actual DNA now that they have him in custody. Sounds like they had DNA from the scene but no database match, found this kid through the vehicle tip, and since he wasn't in any of the systems they had to go with the next best thing and match family DNA. Not the first time it's been done like that, and from what i hear, it's fairly effective.
At any rate, the detectives and Feds seem extremely certain he's the guy, so they must have something pretty concrete against him. But would be nice to find the murder weapon or get a confession.
Well to be fair have you ever seen an arrest in a high-profile case like this where they didn't think they had the right guy? I've never heard a LE team say "Well we think he's the right one".
I wonder what game he is playing......sounds like a Criminal Minds episode
I've said it all along I believe this guy was a "Dexter" fan.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-02-23, 17:32
Are we talking about how the call was put into the CAD, or the actual words of the caller?
I don't know the specifics, but the fact that it seems that their first instinct wasn't to call 911 and say that there was blood and knife wounds- that the victim was unresponsive. I'm sure we'll get the tapes and play by play at some point.
john armond
01-02-23, 18:39
I don't know the specifics, but the fact that it seems that their first instinct wasn't to call 911 and say that there was blood and knife wounds- that the victim was unresponsive. I'm sure we'll get the tapes and play by play at some point.
If I am understanding correctly, they never even checked on the roommates. They tried texting and calling them and when there wasn’t an answer they called 911 to report an unconscious person. If it’s true that they didn’t even bother coming out of their rooms to check on someone in their own house before calling 911, I don’t know what to say
If I am understanding correctly, they never even checked on the roommates. They tried texting and calling them and when there wasn’t an answer they called 911 to report an unconscious person. If it’s true that they didn’t even bother coming out of their rooms to check on someone in their own house before calling 911, I don’t know what to say
Along the lines of what 1168 said.... I think a lot of people and articles are mixing up the 911 call with what the CAD call code that was dispatched.
The 911 taker is going to give an initial dispatch call based on what first come across the phone. People who are freaking out on the phone usually don't come across super concise and clear. Once the call goes out and the ball is rolling, no one is going to take the time to go back and change the initial call type. If they do, it won't be until much later.
I've had murders come through as injured/sick person, unknown trouble, check welfare, trespassing, etc...
Along the lines of what 1168 said.... I think a lot of people and articles are mixing up the 911 call with what the CAD call code that was dispatched.
The 911 taker is going to give an initial dispatch call based on what first come across the phone. People who are freaking out on the phone usually don't come across super concise and clear. Once the call goes out and the ball is rolling, no one is going to take the time to go back and change the initial call type. If they do, it won't be until much later.
I've had murders come through as injured/sick person, unknown trouble, check welfare, trespassing, etc...
Yes, that is what I’m getting at. If I had a dollar for every “unconscious/fainting” that was either bullshit or oh shit…..
If true, which will be on camera, dude has sunk himself, which is good. Maybe trying to set the stage for an insanity claim?
"A fellow inmate told the Daily Mail that accused killer Bryan Kohberger displayed bizarre and disturbing behavior at the Monroe County Jail.
Valerie Cipollina, 50, told the outlet she witnessed Kohberger during her six-hour stay at the jail after she was arrested for domestic violence on New Year’s Day.
“You come in here and I’ll cut you. I’m going to pee on your face. Do what you want with me, I don’t give a s–t,” Cipollina claimed Kohberger yelled at one guard.
She told the Daily Mail that she was held in a cell across from the accused killer in Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania, and could see his upper body through the glass. "
https://nypost.com/2023/01/03/bryan-kohberger-allegedly-tried-to-expose-himself-taunted-guards-from-pa-jail-cell-report/
It was leaked by someone that when they executed search warrants on his apartment in Washington, and his Parents house in PA where he was arrested, they found something that was taken from the murder scene.
If this is true it will help convict him.
If the suspect collected a trophy from the scene, there will be other trophies.
The articles on this goober are nauseating. Everyone is an expert on what makes this douche tick.
The articles on this goober are nauseating. Everyone is an expert on what makes this douche tick.
Being first vs being accurate is the new model, thanx mostly to the 'net and ADHD attention spans of most people today. The news cycle lasting minutes to hours vs days and weeks means making chit up to stay relevant is more important than actually being accurate.
I ignore any of the vids with talking heads commenting on his motives, etc when they don't have a f-ing clue at this time, sticking to objective facts as known so far.
john armond
01-03-23, 11:27
Yes, that is what I’m getting at. If I had a dollar for every “unconscious/fainting” that was either bullshit or oh shit…..
Been there, done that. I was just referencing what I had seen reported in the news. Of course, we all know how accurate those reports can be.
I will say this generation coming up doesn't interact like my generation (and I am assuming yours) does. My teenage daughter and her friends will not ring the doorbell of each other's house or knock on the door. She said they think it is rude because they could be bothering someone else in the house. Instead, they will stand on the front porch and text their friend they are there. My wife works with college kids and some of them do the same thing. I guess it would be akin to my generation rolling up to a friend's house and beeping the car horn to tell they you are there.
That being said, it could be the dispatcher CAD code, or actually true. We will know when the Netflix special comes out.
I ignore any of the vids with talking heads commenting on his motives, etc when they don't have a f-ing clue at this time, sticking to objective facts as known so far.
One interesting article claims the nut is rapping and taunting the jailers. The guy is almost like a tweaker.. but probably just a nut case. Doesn't really matter as long as they caught him.
One interesting article claims the nut is rapping and taunting the jailers. The guy is almost like a tweaker.. but probably just a nut case. Doesn't really matter as long as they caught him.
Per #224 above.
The warden of the Pennsylvania jail he’s at is refuting the female inmates claims that he is exposing himself/yelling rap lyrics.
If true, which will be on camera, dude has sunk himself, which is good. Maybe trying to set the stage for an insanity claim?
"A fellow inmate told the Daily Mail that accused killer Bryan Kohberger displayed bizarre and disturbing behavior at the Monroe County Jail.
Valerie Cipollina, 50, told the outlet she witnessed Kohberger during her six-hour stay at the jail after she was arrested for domestic violence on New Year’s Day.
“You come in here and I’ll cut you. I’m going to pee on your face. Do what you want with me, I don’t give a s–t,” Cipollina claimed Kohberger yelled at one guard.
She told the Daily Mail that she was held in a cell across from the accused killer in Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania, and could see his upper body through the glass. "
https://nypost.com/2023/01/03/bryan-kohberger-allegedly-tried-to-expose-himself-taunted-guards-from-pa-jail-cell-report/
Are male and female inmates this close together, a pronouns game, or just BS?
Are male and female inmates this close together, a pronouns game, or just BS?
Locally here, intake is one big room. Males on one side, females the other. So up to a point they are literally in the same room. After that they are separated into cells to await court, transport, or whatever else. You could have a male and female in separate cells next to or adjacent to each other.
At the initial presser after the arrest, the Idaho Police said something like they would give out some info when the suspect got there. Not happening.
Gag order issued: Moscow, Idaho Police say they will no longer be communicating with the public or the media about the Bryan Kohberger case. Judge is prohibiting any communication by investigators, law enforcement, attorneys, and agents of the prosecuting attorney or defense attorney.
So he got pulled over with father driving to PA:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNdloi7SvdM
Several times apparently:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMTuxKfrMHI&t=0s
So he got pulled over with father driving to PA:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNdloi7SvdM
Several times apparently:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMTuxKfrMHI&t=0s
Bet he was crapping his pants wondering if they were gonna take him in
Read an article that said on the night he was arrested in PA several windows were broken and doors breached.....they weren't playin'. His parents were home at the time also!
PA State Police noted that 50 "tactical assets" were used for the arrest.
john armond
01-05-23, 06:50
At the initial presser after the arrest, the Idaho Police said something like they would give out some info when the suspect got there. Not happening.
Gag order issued: Moscow, Idaho Police say they will no longer be communicating with the public or the media about the Bryan Kohberger case. Judge is prohibiting any communication by investigators, law enforcement, attorneys, and agents of the prosecuting attorney or defense attorney.
They probably know this is going to be a lot bigger than just these four murders and a lot of cold cases are going to be looked at in multiple states he has been known to frequent.
I just don't see this being his first rodeo. My gut is telling me one or both of the two blondes were the intended victims and one or both of the other two stumbled onto him either by hearing something and checking it out or possibly being/getting up to use the bathroom, get a drink, or something else. One of them may have happened upon the predator and was attacked, this would have given the second of the two a little more time to put up a fight, hence the defensive wounds. Now, this is all total speculation, but if something like this scenario is correct, and he was truly a calculating predator he may have not left any evidence at the original scene but did at the second where he was surprised by the two other victims.
I could be 100% wrong though.
If true, which will be on camera, dude has sunk himself, which is good. Maybe trying to set the stage for an insanity claim?
"A fellow inmate told the Daily Mail that accused killer Bryan Kohberger displayed bizarre and disturbing behavior at the Monroe County Jail.
Valerie Cipollina, 50, told the outlet she witnessed Kohberger during her six-hour stay at the jail after she was arrested for domestic violence on New Year’s Day.
“You come in here and I’ll cut you. I’m going to pee on your face. Do what you want with me, I don’t give a s–t,” Cipollina claimed Kohberger yelled at one guard.
She told the Daily Mail that she was held in a cell across from the accused killer in Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania, and could see his upper body through the glass. "
https://nypost.com/2023/01/03/bryan-kohberger-allegedly-tried-to-expose-himself-taunted-guards-from-pa-jail-cell-report/Because all news should be filtered through drunk 50 year old chicks. This was the best thing to ever happen to her, being in jail with the nations most wanted murderer on New Years. No way did she not envision a giant pile of scratch off tickets at the end of this rainbow. I wonder what was more eye watering, the pace of her excited yammering or the smoke rolling of the ever present Virginia slim.
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Because all news should be filtered through drunk 50 year old chicks. This was the best thing to ever happen to her, being in jail with the nations most wanted murderer on New Years. No way did she not envision a giant pile of scratch off tickets at the end of this rainbow. I wonder what was more eye watering, the pace of her excited yammering or the smoke rolling of the ever present Virginia slim.
Sent from my BE2028 using Tapatalk
Hey, now, one of my old landlords smoked Virginia Slims and he was a good dude.
Andy
Probable cause affidavit is online. He left a knife sheath in the house with his DNA on it. Allegedly on of the roommates saw him and locked her door. He was wearing a ski mask I guess. Why didn’t she call the cops then?
Suspects sister starred in a horror movie about students hacked to death back in 2011
“Bryan Kohberger is accused of committing a murder that has markings of a horror movie ... a movie in which his own sister starred.
Amanda Kohberger has a single movie credit ... "Two Days Back," shot in 2011. The premise -- a group of students who are viciously stabbed to death with knives and other weapons.“
https://www.tmz.com/2023/01/05/bryan-kohberger-sister-amanda-starred-horror-movie-victims-stabbed/
Probable cause affidavit is online. He left a knife sheath in the house with his DNA on it. Allegedly on of the roommates saw him and locked her door. He was wearing a ski mask I guess. Why didn’t she call the cops then?
https://www.yahoo.com/news/roommate-came-face-face-idaho-170503558.html
He's referring to the accounts in that article. That would be a bombshell.
The media obsession with this killer is unbelievable. My feed is overrun.
The media obsession with this killer is unbelievable. My feed is overrun.It's certainly better for the powers that be than FTX and Sam Bankman Fried being discussed 24/7
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Now this case actually gets interesting. Article says FBI had Indianna LE pull this guy over (ala a ruse) to see if he had injuries to his hands. FBI was already tracking this joker.
Now this case actually gets interesting. Article says FBI had Indianna LE pull this guy over (ala a ruse) to see if he had injuries to his hands. FBI was already tracking this joker.
They wanted to see the killers hands and get body cam video. I just have a feeling he cut himself at the murder scene, and they got his blood.
They wanted to see the killers hands and get body cam video. I just have a feeling he cut himself at the murder scene, and they got his blood.
Indeed. I'm glad they caught him, but the potential abuse of DNA data from Mongos who voluntarily send their sample in to 23 and me, etc. is frightening. People are just fukking idiots. I digress!
They've certainly put all of their eggs in one basket havent they?
If you squint a bit you could say this guy even sort of looks like Ted Bundy.
Also similar to another Pennsylvanian.
https://inthesetimes.com/article/commie-cadet-spenser-rapone-socialism-dsa-army-military
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