Originally Posted by
yoni
If you are running a 16" barreled platform, then I say it for sure should be a rifle caliber.
MP5 is a cool gun, but I would rather have a SBR AR.
I endorse the use of small sized PCC, mini Uzi, MP5K, B&T various platforms.
You know, this coupled with your comment on the car/riot use actually makes some sense. You stop it with that, you're gonna cost me more money I don't have...
I was in the gun shop the other day, searching futilely for an M&P handgun, and I saw they had a couple B&T TP9s still on the wall, and I said to myself "you know, with the folding stock, that would be just the ticket for a bag-gun." Or something like a MAC10/mini-Uzi with the folder.
That being said, since we're sharing life experiences and thoughts on this topic;
I dabbled in an 11.5 AR pistol a while back; sold it because I had planned it's use for this exact sort of role- a rapid-deploy bag-gun for urban area in-car use in case I want to leave an area but idiocy is afoot. Ended up selling the uppers because, even slick (no light/sling/rds, Mlok rail) with an expensive-ass LAW folder, and the slickest brace I could find (Blade), it was fat as f*** and to long to fit in the size bag I wanted. And I'm talking about a MSM Adapt Pack, not even a handbag/messenger bag. With the LAW folded, it was like almost 2x ARs thick. Like, I could have just bought a damn X95/AUG and accomplished the same thing. So I'm sitting there with the thing like... nah.
I'm not dragging around a 20+ inch long pack with me everywhere; that's getting into hiking bag territory, not a vehicle go/bailout bag.
Can't put that in the front seat with me, it would have to be in the back, and if there's an outbreak of stupid at close quarters... maybe I can't get to my bag stored in the back (vehicle stuck in traffic/dead-ended/overturned/swarmed). Which means then I lose access to the better firepower I'm counting on over a handgun to "get off me bitch" the idiots causing the problems. I'd have to climb into the back seat and wrassle with the bag to get it out, at minimum...assuming I don't have a car-full of people and it's in the trunk or bed. In which case it might as well be on Mars.
Then once it's out...it's out. Like, I can't stick it back in the bag real quick after taking care of business, I'm going to be going all 'Fallujah in the USA' with essentially an SBR, bigass pack, and whatever other chest rig/mag bandolier I've thrown over my clothes. I'm going to have to wait til I've fought to a safe area to put any of it away... then I'm back to handgun only anyway, as there is no way to get it all back out on the fly if shit kicks off again. At minimum it's going to be "pistoleer my way to cover, toss pack on ground, pull out rifle, bangbangbang, pull out ammo and toss it on, bangbangbang some more, put pack back on, then F&M out of area." Maybe it's just me, but between that and in-car issues, that's a lot of moving parts to get 'caught in the middle' of in a close-quarters environment, where things are likely happening quickly and with little/no warning.
And I'm sure as hell not one of these dummies that's going to build a 8" 5.56 gun. #pointless
That being said... I also have found the current PCC craze to be a little... stupid. Most of them aren't that small, that light, and sure as hell don't do anything better than a rifle. I've always been of the school that if I'm going to carry a long gun, it better be be worth carrying. A pistol carbine/SMG isn't going to be super effective if the perps have even basic 2A soft armor or are further than 50-100 yards, or are in/behind most buildings or vehicles. And this is intended for use in an urban environment, where 2 of those three issues are always highly likely.
I also really don't get the "BuT YoU HaVe ThE SaMe AmMo FoR BoTh YoUr RiFlE AnD PiStOl" fanboys. Like, yeah, but it's still a f***ing 9 mil/40/45. In an SBR or Rifle-sized package. Like...no. Just no.
Then there's the size issue again, where a GHM9, Stribog, or EVO pistol, with sliding/folding brace in collapsed position, are STILL like 18-20" long. Only way I can see getting around that is a "K" edition of something like the APC9, MP5, or similar, all of which are, yet again, stupidly expensive.
Speaking of price... I'm in for a good AR at even a CZ Scorpion, since I will need a couple of the upgrades to make it work how I need, some sort of brace, plus proprietary mags at
$30 +/- each, then I've got to get some more gear to carry it with... We won't even talk about B&T's pricing. At least you can get a Glock compatible lower though, so you're not stuck with hard to find proprietary mags; not sure if that extra cost washes out just buying the B&T mags, but it's there I guess.
When you are already heavily invested in say, a 5.56 platform and the pistol brand of your choice, and you've had to put in work to get to that point, it gets hard to justify that sort of expenditure for a 'niche gun'.
At least if I invested in an X95/AUG, I can still use mags and gear I already have, and am still coming close to same (or slightly better) to initial cost for the gun itself. And I've got a full 16" 5.56 in either platform.
Unfortunately, that bullpup still has the same fitment/carriage/access issues as the 11.5 pistol I had, rendering it also a pointless investment, IMO.
It seems to me the whole PCC/SMG game is merely one of insane cost, dubious usefulness over a rifle or handgun, let alone dubious future legality given you must either brace it or SBR it, for them to be of any more effective use than a handgun.
So I have pretty much resigned myself to "upgrade to a better CCW gun and carry extra mags" and call it a day. Just in time for every f***er in the universe to go on a gun-buying spree. Typical. FML.
"Once we get some iron in our souls, we'll get some iron in our hands..."
"...A rapid, aggressive response will let you get away with some pretty audacious things if you are willing to be mean, fast, and naked."-Failure2Stop
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