Handgun or pistol defense against bear attacks

[maximus83]

This writer did a good job of compiling a very large number of known cases of successful bear defense with a pistol or handgun, and organizing by caliber.

Undoubtedly some of the accounts of defenses are not 100% reliable. But it's probably the best information we're going to get of an informal type, where it's not something like data compiled by the DNR's of the various states, etc. I was surprised to see how well our common big 3 service calibers did (not suggesting that this means these calibers are 'recommended' for bear defense tho).

Which caliber would you guess was used most commonly for successful bear defense?

https://www.ammoland.com/2019/08/han...-96-effective/

[gaijin]

This writer did a good job of compiling a very large number of known cases of successful bear defense with a pistol or handgun, and organizing by caliber.

Undoubtedly some of the accounts of defenses are not 100% reliable. But it's probably the best information we're going to get of an informal type, where it's not something like data compiled by the DNR's of the various states, etc. I was surprised to see how well our common big 3 service calibers did (not suggesting that this means these calibers are 'recommended' for bear defense tho).

Which caliber would you guess was used most commonly for successful bear defense?

https://www.ammoland.com/2019/08/han...-96-effective/

Holy crap, this would get your attention-

“I GUARANTEE you the trigger pull & recoil will be the LAST thing on your mind in an actual Griz attack! I lived AK bush for 27 yers & was bear attacked 4 times. When the SHTF your adrenalyn levels spike & your attention is on the BEAR, not the gun! You'll never feel the recoil nor hear the report. TOTAL focus is ON the BEAR!! BTW, my backup handgun was a 44 mag redhawk w full length bbl (7 1/4 inch) shooting 320 grain WFN Hard Cast @ 1200 FPS & THAT WAS MARGINAL!! Only shot one small 6 ft black bear directly in the chest w the muzzle pushing it back when the gun went off. Flipped it out of my video stand w the sternam, heart & backbone blown out its back. Hit the ground dead w the entire muzzle blast INSIDE the bear. Her jaws were 2 inches from my nose when the gun went boom. NOT a fun experience. When bears attack its FAST!”

[WickedWillis]

Holy crap, this would get your attention-

“I GUARANTEE you the trigger pull & recoil will be the LAST thing on your mind in an actual Griz attack! I lived AK bush for 27 yers & was bear attacked 4 times. When the SHTF your adrenalyn levels spike & your attention is on the BEAR, not the gun! You'll never feel the recoil nor hear the report. TOTAL focus is ON the BEAR!! BTW, my backup handgun was a 44 mag redhawk w full length bbl (7 1/4 inch) shooting 320 grain WFN Hard Cast @ 1200 FPS & THAT WAS MARGINAL!! Only shot one small 6 ft black bear directly in the chest w the muzzle pushing it back when the gun went off. Flipped it out of my video stand w the sternam, heart & backbone blown out its back. Hit the ground dead w the entire muzzle blast INSIDE the bear. Her jaws were 2 inches from my nose when the gun went boom. NOT a fun experience. When bears attack its FAST!”

That seems like a pretty incredible story.

[Firefly]

I actually had to shoot a bear in the 90s that came at me. I was in the hills and laughed it off when I was told to keep that old Blackhawk holstered on my hip.

So yeah..... You need a .44. Some smart ass will come up with some lies about downing a bear with a 9mm or a .40 and bill drilling them.

NO.

When some big ass, hairy, snarling beast stands up and sounds like a pissed off wookie and is coming at you... You want that .44.

[maximus83]

So yeah..... You need a .44. Some smart ass will come up with some lies about downing a bear with a 9mm or a .40 and bill drilling them.

Yep .44 mag was most commonly used in these compiled accounts. And also the most widely recommended handgun caliber I'm aware of. My grandfather would carry a .357, with heavy loads and hard-cast deep penetrating bullets, it's better than today's service calibers and would likely work, but even so less optimal than a .44.

However that doesn't mean the compiled accounts of people using service calibers are lies. One of the accounts occurred here in WA state just recently, which he mentions, a guy killed a black bear with a .45 (using your favorite brand pistol, BTW :-) ) when it followed him up a tree. Though that one was only around 150 lbs. Another one is published in American Hunter describing how Alaska Guide Phil Shoemaker killed a grizzly with a 9mm. With pics and witnesses. The success of the 3 service calibers in the bear accounts in this article is surprisingly good and frankly better than I expected.

Important to distinguish I guess between what has worked versus what's recommended and increases your odds. If it were me, in big bear country, I'd carry a .44 too. In WA state black bear country as a trail round, I'm fine carrying my 1911 with a hard-cast load from Buffalo Bore. Would even consider a 9mm with the right load, but can't quite bring myself to do it despite all the FBI ballistics reports saying they aren't really all that different in terminal effects, other than size of hole.

[eric0311]

I actually had to shoot a bear in the 90s that came at me. I was in the hills and laughed it off when I was told to keep that old Blackhawk holstered on my hip.

So yeah..... You need a .44. Some smart ass will come up with some lies about downing a bear with a 9mm or a .40 and bill drilling them.

NO.

When some big ass, hairy, snarling beast stands up and sounds like a pissed off wookie and is coming at you... You want that .44.

There are numerous documented cases of 9mm being used in Bear (brown and black) attacks…

[Pappabear]

There are numerous documented cases of 9mm being used in Bear (brown and black) attacks…

And what happened ? I need to look into some of these bullets. Can someone point me to best bullets for my 9mm HK P30 for hairy critters. In reality, AZ doesn't have big bears but our wolf problem is growing and will suck in future years.

PB

[HKGuns]

And what happened ?
PB

They were eaten.

Lots of people survive being shot by 9mm. Taking it for bear defense is darn near stupid.

Haven't thought much about wolf defense. Not sure you'd need the penetration of Hard Cast lead on a wolf. I bet your buddy Markm could cook you up some spicy 9mm loads.

[eric0311]

They were eaten.

Lots of people survive being shot by 9mm. Taking it for bear defense is darn near stupid.

Haven't thought much about wolf defense. Not sure you'd need the penetration of Hard Cast lead on a wolf. I bet your buddy Markm could cook you up some spicy 9mm loads.

Google is your friend, gents... try it.

https://sportingclassicsdaily.com/de...ts-by-caliber/

For the less-technologically inclined folks.... I'll summarize the (4) known (to this articles author) uses of 9mm on Bears:

1. Alaska, Russian River, Grizzly Charged Fishermen, 9mm 17 August, 2002

But then the bear turned, looked up at Brenner and lunged, said Lewis, who interviewed the three men Saturday.

Brenner fired twice at the center of the hulking shape closing to four or five feet away. The sow, estimated at 400 to 450 pounds, went down. Brenner then put three more bullets into her head.

He used a 9 mm semiautomatic pistol. Lewis said such a low-caliber gun ordinarily doesn’t pack enough punch to kill a bear. But Brenner loaded the pistol with full-metal-jacket bullets that penetrated to the bear’s vital organs, he said.

2. Bear Charged John Tiebohl, 9 mm, 31 August, 2004 Bachelor Gulch, Colorado

BACHELOR GULCH – The Aug. 31 shooting of a bear in Bachelor Gulch still echoes among residents in the upscale enclave.The Colorado Division of Wildlife continues to investigate the incident, in which homeowner John Tietbohl shot and wounded a bear outside his Daybreak Ridge home. Tietbohl told officers the bear had been trying to get into his home, then charged him as he was getting into his car that evening. Tietbohl, who had been carrying a 9-millimeter pistol as a sidearm to protect himself from the bear, shot and hit the animal, which left a trail of blood as it ran off.Earlier in the day, Bachelor Gulch security officers had repeatedly sprayed pepper spray at the bear near Tietbohl’s house, but the animal stayed around. The bear also reportedly slipped into Tietbohl’s garage in the days before it was shot.

3. AK: Guide Kills Attacking Grizzly with 9mm, July, 2016

In the last week in July, 2016, Phil Shoemaker had use a 9mm pistol to kill a grizzly that was threatening his clients and himself. It worked. (this is the well documented case in which the guide used 147 grain +P hardcast Buffalo Bore)

4. Bowhunters, Spray Failed, 9mm, Grizzly October, 2017, account from two sources, Todd Orr, and Eye-witness, Beaver Creek, MT.


I interviewed both sources. The attack was reported to Fish and Game, but was not published.

It was at the end of the day, and was getting dark. Two bow hunters, were returning from their bow hunt. They both had bear spray and pistols. They had agreed that if forced into defending themselves, one would use spray, the other would back up the spray with his pistol.

The male grizzly bluff charged several times, blocking their return to camp.

Warning shots were fired in the air with a 9 mm pistol. The bear ran off, then came back. Bear spray was utilized but only extended 10 feet into a light head wind and did not reach the bear. The bear would not disengage. It kept coming back and getting closer. The aggressive bear was finally shot with the 9 mm pistol at close range. It ran off. The report was made to Fish and Wildlife, and the bear was found dead the next day. Eye-witness believes it was one shot to the chest of the bear.

HKGuns... it appears as if your assertion that these folks who knowingly carried a 9mm (aptly loaded with the proper penetrating ammunition) were not, in fact, eaten.

[BuzzinSATX]

And what happened ? I need to look into some of these bullets. Can someone point me to best bullets for my 9mm HK P30 for hairy critters. In reality, AZ doesn't have big bears but our wolf problem is growing and will suck in future years.

PB

You are basically looking for flat nose hard cast ammo. Typically Underwood Ammo or Buffalo Bore are the most common names you hear. They both have hard cast in most cartridges. I like Underwood personally. Good ammo:

https://underwoodammo.com/9mm-luger-...-hunting-ammo/

Buffalo Bore is more spendy but every bit as good, and owned Tim Sundles is a very experienced outdoorsman and hunter:

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...t_detail&p=389

You can roll your own if you like. These are the actual bullets Buffalo Bore uses:

https://rimrockbullets.com/xcart/9mm...n-per-400.html

Double tap is another brand.

Alaska master bear guide Phil Shoemaker used a single stack 9MM with Buffalo Bore ammo to defend fishing clients and kill a large brown bear inside 10 yards. His story is amazing but he was very cool under the pressure and made the hits count.

https://buffalobore.net/images/PhilShoemaker.jpg

Still, the shots traveled almost through the 700 lbs bear broadside. Story is out there if you Google it. I’ve read in a lesser account that he regretted carrying the 9MM but it worked…last round finished the job. Maybe some Devine intervention helped…

A 200 lbs wolf would be less formidable…

ETA: I think folks get too mixed up about “hunting a bear with a handgun” and using a handgun to defend themselves against a bear.

Hunting ethically would be choosing a cartridge that will dispatch the animal cleanly and humanely, preferably with a single round, and a calm well placed shot. Definitely would not choose a 9 or even 10MM for that.

But defending? Give me a pistol I can shoot well and repeatedly under pressure and lots of solid, flat nose, deep penetrating bullets. I’m hoping to be hitting and breaking skull, spinal, and structural bones, not a double lung/heart shot.


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