Bullpup choice: Steyr AUG vs FN FS2000?

General Firearms Other Semi-Automatic Rifles
1

Just for fun, and just because I want one, I’m considering buying a bullpup rifle. HOWEVER I have no experience with any of them. I was wondering what most of the folks on this forum who’ve handled both would recommend. I’m LEANING towards the FN, but I’m interested in hearing all sides.

Here are my thought processes so far:

  1. The FS2000 would take MORE (but not all) of the mags I already own. With the AUG I’d have to buy that NATO stock thingy.
  2. I shoot rifles left handed. The FS2000 with it’s front ejection seems like it would be easier for me to shoot. I know the AUG can be converted, but I don’t know what is involved in that.
  3. The FS2000 has a 1/7 twist vs the 1/9 of the AUG.
  4. I don’t know for sure, but don’t both of them use CHF barrels with chrome lined bores and chambers?
  5. Like I said, I’m ignorant of the manual-of-arms for either rifle, so that’s a wash.
  6. I haven’t really priced out either rifle, but I MIGHT have to budget MORE for the AUG due to the need to buy magazines, left handed bolts, whatever…

Thanks for any info,

Jason

2

I am sure my room mate will jump on this thread as he is more into bull pubs. But I will put my two cents in. I have shot a FS2000 a handful of Augs and a MSAR. I would take the MSAR that takes AR mags (E4 model) over the others. It shoots well has good ergonomics and is accurate. The FS2000 felt clunky to me. The foregrip was huge. I hated the built in optic. Just my opinion.
Pat

3

Easily solved.

4

Your right it is easly solved but I don’t like that solution. How about an Aimpoint or a good 1-4 optic minus the AR15 detachable carry handle. Sorry but that looks like an eye sore to me. Plus with the optic that high up your cheak would almost have to be floating over the stock.
Pat

5

Well you don’t have to like it, it’s my rifle. :wink:

I’m just demonstrating there are all kinds of options. And mine works best for me as I wanted to have an iron sight option with my red dot. I have no problem with it and could honestly care what a functional setup looks like.

You probably won’t like this one either.

:smiley:

6

how about the MSAR E4? takes M16 mags, and can easily mount optics on it.

7

I’ve been fortunate to have trigger time on semi-auto and full auto versions of both rifles. I think the AUG has good points to it, but overall I prefer the FS2000. I think the FS2000 is basically the AUG taken further. If you look at the hammer packs and linkage, the two are very close. There are some other similarities between the two. Where the FS2000 stepped things up was with the forward ejection and that it is completely ambidextrous without having to change the setup. To me, those are huge pluses.

I know some people complain about the fore-end on the FS2000 and width of the rifle. I can only say that seems to be a personal preference thing. It doesn’t bother me as being too wide and I don’t have meat hooks for hands. And now there is a tri-rail replacement that allows for the mounting of lights and VFGs. As far as optics go, there are two version of the FS2000. The standard one comes with an optic and tactical one does not. I went with a tactical one and mounted an optic of my choice and it has worked fine.

I have considered getting the licensed version of the AUG produced by Sabre Defence just to have it but there’s no compelling reason for me to buy the 70’s version of my rifle aside from it being neat.

If you like bullpup rifles and take the time to learn your way around either design, you would probably be happy either way. However, I think the FS2000 has the AUG beat when it comes to being ambidextrous and that is important to me.

8

Or it could be that I actually own G3s in addition to the HK91s I own.

Here’s a few of them. Please note the bottom rifle is a 91 and the one on the right is a Sar 3, and not G3 variants.

Here’s a particularly interesting one.

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=33942

Both the HK91 and the HK G3 are stamped receiver firearms. The 91 is the semi auto import version of the G3 which is the select fire military rifle.

9

While we are at it, here are some MP5s I don’t own.

These are in reality screen shots from my favorite video game.

LOL

10

I too enjoy the FN rifle. First time I shot it I was amazed at the low recoil. I also agree that being a newer design it could build upon existing systems such as the AUG and is definitely a bit more ambi than the AUG.

The little chamber door being right under my nose took a little getting used to but that is the only thing that stood out in my mind as unusual. I wish there was a FVG option without going to a full rail system, but like you I found the wide front end comfortable enough once I got used to it.

11

HK “T&E Only”

Most of the HKs in the pics (except the 91, S3 and 1962 semi import) are select fire machine guns. When I say I own G3s I don’t mean parts guns built on US receivers and I don’t mean my favorite gun to use when playing Rainbow Six. I own about 10 HK G3s (but that does include two semi only pre68 imports which are marked G3 before they changed the designation to HK 41).

I am currently a SOT, but with the exception of a few pre86 dealer samples (I don’t own any post samples as you don’t really own them so much as rent them) all of my pre86 transferables were acquired back in the 90s before I became a FFL.
I started collecting guns in the 4th grade. I’m not rich, I’ve just been building a collection for a long time. I’ve been fortunate enough to make many good purchases when it was a good time to buy. My machine gun collection is larger than most peoples gun collection.

I only have a few firearms that I don’t shoot. One is a 1942 date Springfield Garand which has never been fired by anyone. I have a couple rare Drillings in oddball calibers so they don’t see much trigger time. And I have some WWII Japanese firearms that ammunition is rare for. I don’t shoot my Artillery Luger or Red 9 Broomhandle much either. And it’s been probably 20 years since I last fired my original WWI Colt 1911. I don’t shoot those original G3 semi imports much either.

As for the rest, I shoot them but take very good care of them. Anyone who owns NFA weapons knows the registry has been closed for over 20 years. That tends to make us responsible owners. While I shoot my MP5s often enough (tends to be my favorite firearm for my carbine club shoots - especially given the cost of 9mm vs. 5.56 lately) and we go prone in the dirt, shoot around barricades and all that other fun IDPA kinda stuff. But that doesn’t mean I toss them down a gravel driveway either.

I tend to meticulously maintain all of my firearms, even my AKs get a detailed strip and clean after every shooting session (with the exception of the bores which I don’t clean as obsessively as bench shooters because I don’t want to wear them out) even though AKs are famous for being able to go neglected.

12

What rails did you mount on the gun below to allow mounting of the optic and the handguards and how did you do it?

I’ve never owned a G-3, but your mounting of the rails looks very intriging.

13

congrats on a great collection. i hope to have half that many one day.

dont let the internet thugz get you down. most of them are probably half your age and still live with the moms.

14

I have never shot either, but I have drooled repeatedly over both at the fun shop. If I were to buy one today it would be the AUG type!

15

MIcrotech has an E4 version of their MSAR STG-556 that takes AR magazines. I have no experience with it and no idea how well it works. Though their normal guns seem to run well know and a friend’s older model functions 100%, some of their guns have been problematical. You could pick up one of these and a left hand bolt as your least expensive option. I believe they have a one in eight twist on their 16" barrels.

You could buy the new US built AUG A3, then buy a left handed bolt for like $150ish and that will run you nore money. A stock that takes AR mags runs about $300ish (been a while since I priced one). The stock will need some dremel work on the rear to accommodate the new A3 because of the new gun’s integral rail.

  1. I shoot rifles left handed. The FS2000 with it’s front ejection seems like it would be easier for me to shoot. I know the AUG can be converted, but I don’t know what is involved in that.

I have an FS2000 and like it very much. As it comes from the factory it will not reliably detonate mil primers of milsurp ammo because it has a captive spring around the firing pin. This captive spring takes 2 fingers and 30 seconds to remove. After removing mine, I have fired thousands of rounds of milsurp (Xm-193 and such) without a single failure to detonate. It will only take mags with a GI aluminum profile, not PMAGS.

The FS2000 has a hammer forged barrel. The American made AUG A3’s barrel is not hammer forged, but it is made with certain processes by Sabre who claim it is just as good as hammer forged. The One that I t&E’ed shot as accurately if not more so than my Steyr: 1.75" 5-shot groups at 100 yards from prone with a Leupold CQT scope on 3 power with 55 grain loads. The 75 grainers grouped in like 4.5" because the gun has a 1 in 9" barrel.

With the FS2000 and its 1 in 7" barrel, the best I have ever done from the bench with an AImpoint is about 1.5", but most groups are in the 2" - 3" range.

Microtech, Steyr and FN all chrome line their bores and chambers.

  1. Like I said, I’m ignorant of the manual-of-arms for either rifle, so that’s a wash.

WIth any of the guns it is a matter of getting used to it. The mag simply goes goes in a different place.

With the FS2000 I’ve found that sometimes if you put a magazine in when the bolt is locked back the vibration will sometimes jar the bolt into releasing. This is especially the case if you are in an awkward shooting position and bang the gun on something. However it will not get a good release and the bolt will only close part of the way. But when you try to retract the bolt you will give yourself a doublefeed. The solution of this is to try not to put a loaded mag in when the bolt is back.

Since the gun has no last shot bolt holdopen, if you are shooting it and it goes click instead of bang, , indicating that it is out of ammo, simply remove the old mag and put a new mag in and THEN work the bolt rather than locking the bolt back before you you put the new mag in.

But if you are at a shooting range or a class you may be required to lock the bolt back during ceasefires. Now when you put a magazine in sometimes the charging handle will slide out of its groove and let the bolt slide forward. But it will not go all the way forward and when you pull it back to feed a round you may get a doublefeed. This is where the problems occur.

The correct thing to do if the bolt does not go all the way forward is to drop the mag and work the charging handle so that the round that has not chambered will fall out of the magwell. Then let the bolt go forward before putting a mag in and THEN use the charging handle to chamber a round.

16

Below is a picture of my FS2000. I sent the foreend to the guy at ERT slings and paid him to dremmel it out and install the light:

It would seem that the one below would have major problems getting a good cheekweld as well as with a huge offset between the sights and the bore, which tends to be beig enough with a normal FS2000:

17

Thanks to all you who’ve shared your knowledge in this thread.

Ed L., I saw that you wrote an article in SWAT on using the FS2000 in a Pat Rogers class. I’ll have to check my back issues and see if I have that one, and buy the .pdf if I don’t already have it.

Jason

18

This may be obvious. But is there a chance the OP could test fire these weapons out at a rental range and then make his decision.
Pat

19

Not around here. Maybe if I drove down to Birmingham or up to Nashville. OR the next time I go out to Phoenix, I could try Scottsdale Gun Club.

20

Jason,

The article appeared in the November 2006 issue of SWAT (with the FS2000 on the cover). I didn’t take it to the Pat Rogers class until March 2007. THere is a link to the thread where it is mentioned: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=43177&highlight=fs2000#post43177

I shoot ARs a lot more now, but before I did I actually had friends try to stage interventions to get me to stop shooting Bullpups:).

Looking at things now, I would have to say I like my Steyr AUG better than the FS2000. But my Steyr AUG is an A2 which has an optic that has a thin crosshair in its circle reticle, and the entire optic can be removed and replaced with a rail.

Alaskapopo,

It would be great to find a rental range that had both guns available, but I have not seen it. Most rental ranges concentrate on pistols and if they can accommodate longarms they tend to have more commonly available ones like ARs or AKs.