Handgun malfunction and Remedial action....SERIOUSLY???

Training Training and Tactics
1

This was snipped from an entry on a local instructors website who runs multiple “Groupon/LivingSocial” type firearm instruction events which are targeted at new/unexperienced shooters that are held at a local gun club.

[b][i]"In this video I am demonstrating the three most popular malfunctions in a handgun. They are as follows:

Failure to fire
Stove-pipe
Doublefeed"[/i][/b]

Im not quite sure what “popular” has to do with types of handgun malfunctions but I just wanted to put it into context. The following is apparently what he/they are teaching to these brand-new students who are attending his classes. The comments in RED are what concern me the most…

[b][i]"Another thing I hear a bunch these days is, the new school of thought, instead of re-engaging after the remedial action go directly to an assess mode first. That is all fine and dandy but there should not be any need to assess. As you are doing remedial action, you do not disregard the enemy, and you surely dont forget if they are shooting back at you or not. The purpose of re-engaging with rounds down range is to let them know that you are back in battery and fully capable of neutralizing them. If in the couple of seconds it took for you to clear a malfunction and re-engage, the enemy fled then so be it, shoot a couple rounds and let them know to run faster.

Another reason to re-engage is to make sure that your firearm fires properly after the remedial action. If you just assess and put it back into your holster because the enemy is gone, you never know if you fixed it. A couple minutes later the enemy comes back and you pull that firearm out and it fails to fire. This is not the time to figure out what happened, you had plenty of time to figure it out if you would of fired a round after the remedial action and it failed to fire."[/i][/b]

Im curious what everyone else’s opinion is on sending rounds down range as a default after clearing a malfunction. I am of the opinion that it is patently retarded to employ and especially to teach this tecnique to new shooters

Now here’s the kicker, If I want to host instructors with resumes like Larry Vickers, Kyle Defoor, John McPhee, Ken Hackathorn, etc., and more than 10 students sign-up for the class I need to arrange to have a club provided RSO sit thru the entire class and baby-sit. This guy is unaffected by this club rule because he has his own cadre of “instructors” to cover the number of students that show up to his courses. They are bringing in a high volume of students to their classes which concerns me for several different reasons.

Im not looking to harm this guy’s lively-hood, but his tactics are idiotic and in my opinion introducing new shooters to this type of crap will not only cause problems for the club (and himself) down the road but will also place his students and innocent bystanders in situations of elevated liability and risk of death or injury.

2

I suspect your club has a board you can bring this up to?

3

There isn’t a smiley for FACE PALM.

4

Yes. I am looking for more feedback before I present this. Just trying to make sure I am not loosing it myself.

Here is what I replied to the post on his website:

[i]If you are teaching students to fire rounds downrange as a default after clearing a malfunction, where exactly are you teaching them to aim those rounds? If your attacker has fled then a case can be made that he/she is no longer a “threat” depending on the dynamics of the particular situation.

If the attacker is no longer visible and has moved behind cover/concealment, then where are you teaching students to aim the rounds that you are teaching them to fire as a default after clearing a malfunction? Should they take a moment to find a solid backstop to fire at even though this would likely take their focus away from finding the bad guy and will also likely reveal their own position?

Stay safe,
Nick[/i]

5

Don’t feel too bad.
My club hosts Tactical Response classes several times a year.
A couple of board members are Jeager followers.
They do their thing, meanwhile someone on the safety committee decided to try to measure dicks with Chris Costa on Magpul’s last and probably last class there.

McPhee will be here the same weekend as Tactical Response.
I sure hope the board members let McPhee do his thing uninhibited.
McNamara will be here in October.
Hopefully we can keep these high caliber types coming back.

6

Well said.

7

Does he post any of the usual firearm safety rules on his site? Something like “Be sure of your taget and what is beyond it” would seem to contradict popping off rounds just to make sure your weapon is working.

8

What is this guys background? Not only is it retarded, but it seems like a really good way to get yourself in trouble both legally and civilly.

Matt

9

The number of dudes who shouldnt be teaching shooting, let alone how to tie your boots is growning at a rapid rate.

The difference here is some guys just teach dumb stuff, this guy is advocating illegal and dangerous shit! That is where caring about his bottom line stops. Someone needs to at least call him out on it. Does this dude have a youtube like the rest of them?

10

Since you have nothing to lose (I assume) I would confront the guy and tell him what he is advocating is not only stupid, but poissibly unlawful and could land someone in hot water should they be dumb enough to listen to him.

11

actually we had several from that club do that that 4 to be exact if i recall correct. including one of the TR followers who questioned the fact that we werent teaching retention shooting with handguns during the carbine class when chris tried to explain it he shunned us off…

then we had 3 guys barrel down driving at a high rate of speedwhile we were teaching…

Nick your the right path

Note i have nothing against James he does his thing and others do there’s

12

I’m sincerely sorry about your guys’ experience.

Nick I hope you can get this straightened out.
Quality instruction in our area is few and far between.

13

No need brother but thank you

If you want us back you tell me we will make it happen.

Nick send me the video linky thingy

14

Steve,

I have an email into my clubs president to see what he thinks of what this clown is promoting on his sight, and also to see if we can get exempted from the whole baby-sitter requirement so I can get you guys set-up here without having to worry about being interrupted during the class.

I will post the clowns website/info once I hear back from the club.

Stay safe,
Nick

15

That so called “instructor” shouldn’t be teaching anyone anything firearms related with his blatant disregard for safety, common sense and the law. I don’t think that I could contain myself around someone like that. Nickdrak, you are doing the right thing. Eventually, someone will be held accountable for his stupidity. I’m curious about his website as well. Keep us updated on this.

16

There is so much wrong with that I can’t even begin.

17

I wonder if this guy teaches “warning shots” too.

“just send one down their way to let them know you’re really serious”

18

I like what the guy is teaching. I might also add that before you determine the “enemy” is a threat… FIRE a few rounds so you know your weapon is functional. It will also let the “enemy” know you have been through quality training! :cool:

19

Good ol’ Tactical Response (student and instructor pic below).

20

That must be their classroom at the left rear.