Gentlemen, I would like to hear opinions regarding where a properly gassed and buffered AR should be spitting it’s brass. Currently mine is putting them behind me at about four or five O’clock, about five feet away.
My current set up: 10.25 barrel, standard buffer, non-FA bolt. So far it’s been perfectly reliable.
I’m thinking there are going to be many variables that factor into this…mostly related to how fast your BCG is moving (barrel length, gas length, buffer size, ammo, etc)
That said, our two rifles are apples to oranges. Mine is a 16" carbine with a FA carrier and an H2 buffer. Even with relatively low power wolf .223 all of my spent casings wind up in a small area a couple feet ahead of me and a few feet to the right.
16" BCM Middy with BCM FA BCG and carbine buffer is very consistent 3:30 about 8’ out.
That’s fine. I’m surprised that as shorty with a standard buffer would put the brass there. Usually they bounce empties off the deflector and fly at 2 o’clock.
As stated, there are many factors with the gun and ammo that drive this. And there’s no one optimal ejection pattern.
Mine is the same as Inuvik. My M&P15 using EITHER carbine buffer or my ST-T2 buffer; using either .223 OR 5.56 ammo; lands in the 3:00-4:00 area; about 7-10 feet away. And “Supposedly”, the M&P15 is overgassed. I say supposedly, not to say it isn’t, but rather that it isn’t causing any negative affects, which should be noticed by the ejection pattern. However; having a deflector on most AR’s, that will have some affect. But I don’t hear or see any BCG slamming. Anyway; my ejection is in a nice neat pile to the side and slightly behind.
See pic for ejection pattern chart I had. Obviously as others have stated many factors can influence this. And I also am not sure of what is termed on the chart as a “perfect” pattern.
And another thread from last year on the subject https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=57703
And another from 2009. https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=42660
All the info you’ll ever need (or care) to know about ejection patterns in those threads!
You shouldn’t think further than this.
Yeah I know, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it. But…if you read this site long enough you tend to believe that your SBR WILL fail if you don’t use a FA bolt carrier, or H2 buffer. Never mind that it’s not an LMT, COLT, BCM, NOVESKE or KAC.
Where’s the Koolaid?
Back to the topic of the thread, thanks for the replies everyone!
This photo is great - thanks! I know it’s a simplified explanation but it’s a nice quick and dirty reference.
Interesting.
Why would an M16 carrier fall into the overgassed redzone, yet the rifle was more or less designed/evolved there to production with that carrier in mind?
'Course I might be in error as the chart seems to be geared more toward carbine rather than a rifle, but still, the M16 carrier would be a constant with that. Or at least I don’t seem to recall a special carbine specific carrier being available at some point or another.
FWIW, if the brass doesn’t dent on a built in/intregal deflector, and doesn’t throw it into the 2~12 o’clock zone, I’m content.
I believe those are suggestions to correct the ejection pattern “problem.” The heavier weight of the M-16 carrier to counter and over gassed gun.
Ah, yes, that does make sense doesn’t it.
Somehow it jumped into my head as the other way around and wouldn’t shake loose.
NO.
This MS paint idiotic chart is fucking retarded. AND… it’s the reason for too many guys buying dumb stuff like Spike buffers, and messing with shit that isn’t broke… or actually creating problems with their gun.
If I ever find the guy who made this chart, I’ll kick his dick into the back of his throat. :rolleyes:
While I don’t have a problem with the chart, I agree that it isn’t totally indicative of whether your rifle is performing well or not. I believe GTifosi is definitely correct when he mentions that if the brass isn’t getting dented; and might I add that the rounds aren’t being shot 20-30 feet away, or barely dribbling out of the weapon; then your rifle is working perfectly fine. I bought a spikes ST-T2, but it wasn’t to change the ejection pattern. I bought it to eliminate some of the slapping noise, and smooth the recoil a little. And the buffer did exactly that. FWIW: The ejection pattern is exactly the same as it was prior with my carbine buffer. But again; the most important thing is the condition and distance of the empty cases. Not necessarily WHERE it lands.
Nobody said the chart was the “end all be all”, and nobody said that anyone should strive for the perfect ejection pattern. I never recall anyone on any thread saying that. I have however read, and I do personally believe, the chart could serve a useful purpose to begin to troubleshoot if someone’s brass is flying back in their face, or if ejecting at 12:00 it might be an indication that something might be amiss. And hey, if someone is happy getting smacked in the forehead with brass, or if their brass is flying straight in front of them, so be it. However, if someone wanted to change the direction of the ejected brass, for whatever reason, the chart , if used at all, should merely be used as a guide to troubleshoot the issue. If someone is striving for the perfect ejection pattern they have anal issues deeper & waaaay beyond the scope of M4C.com. My brass ejection just happens to be “perfect” though…LOL. I swear I didn’t fiddle with it, it was perfect all by itself.
I’m not a “perfect” human being. Doesn’t mean I’m not a good human being though! Okay …I’ll settle for fairly decent or acceptable!
A little something from ArmaLite on the subject:
http://www.armalite.com/images/Tech%20Notes\Tech%20Note%2034,%20Adjusting%20the%20Ejection%20Pattern%20of%20the%20AR-10%20….pdf
So according to the ArmaLite technical bulletin, they do have an “ideal” ejection pattern that they strive for. (The word ideal is probably much more suited than perfect.) It’s 1:00-3:00.
This beginning pattern which new weapons are inspected for, with good ammo and fresh springs obviously allows for spring wear and lower powered ammo. Once the rounds start being ejected at 5:00, according to this technical bulletin, perhaps it’s time to replace parts and move it back to 1-3.
We can argue with the technical bulletin all we want Let’s keep in mind they invented the M16/AR15 weapon.
If your shit’s working flawlessly I’d be less worried about “where” it was ejecting, and just being sure to monitor “when” it changes. ;p
For the most part I get what you’re saying. But I’m not so sure if I had a weapon ejecting at 5:00 or south thereof, or 1:00 or north thereof with fresh parts that that wouldn’t warrant some corrective action. Although the 5:00 would bother me more as in the OP’s case & first post in this thread. I think I’d be trying to get that thing more closer to 3:00 to allow for wear. I’d at least be trying to get it off 5:00 so they’re not spittin in my face or banging all over the place at the most inopportune time as murphy will do.
Some interesting replies in this thread.
Under what conditions will ejected brass hit the brass deflector?