Origin of the Government Profile Barrel

[coldblue]

In regards to: "...Why the Army poo-pooed the USMC's efforts to improve the M16 was partly political as at the time the Marine Corps was increasingly developing equipment that the Army felt was under their purview..."

"the Army" is not quite correct as it was just a few minor agents with agendas and turf to defend. In fact, there was more decenters in the Marine Corps and DoD I had to deal with (but that's another story).
Bottom line was that "the Army" had had decades to improve the M16A1, and spent millions on one set of improvements after another that were never adopted (partially because their new weapon development side kept promising advanced, future, leap-ahead, etc., "new rifles with new technology" that never made it to the Soldier. Their rationale was to compare "projected" levels of improvement of a new proposed system to scores of M16 improvement test results that failed to meet their self-fulfilling failure prophecy criteria of "...a 60% improvement at the 95% confident level..." or something like that.
They used the same pie-in-the-sky briefing technics to justify the new 9mm pistol program comparing the hottest NATO round muzzle energy/velocity wise (I think this was a cold weather Swedish SMG round) to SAAMI 9mm side by side to .45ACP. Well the NATO round looked pretty good to most decision makers because it graphed half-way between SAAMI 9mm (which we were familiar with) and .45. However, over time their loading of the US 9mmm NATO round was reduced 3 times in order for it not to break the M9 pistol. So it came out at the SAAMI spec in the end.

[lysander]

...Bottom line was that "the Army" had had decades to improve the M16A1, and spent millions on one set of improvements after another that were never adopted (partially because their new weapon development side kept promising advanced, future, leap-ahead, etc., "new rifles with new technology" that never made it to the Soldier. Their rationale was to compare "projected" levels of improvement of a new proposed system to scores of M16 improvement test results that failed to meet their self-fulfilling failure prophecy criteria of "...a 60% improvement at the 95% confident level..." or something like that...

Price, I think you forgot price. It's rarely on the same view-graph slide with the improvement, but it is usually there in the presentation somewhere.

"X% improvement, with Y% risk....(at $Z cost)"

[sinlessorrow]

And the A2 have the AR-15 one of the worse triggers ever. Everyone with design input on the burst trigger needs to be tar and feathered. 3 separate trigger pull weights was a horrible idea, as was a burst mechanism that did not reset if it was interrupted.

[turnburglar]

Everyone with design input on the burst trigger needs to be tar and feathered. 3 separate trigger pull weights was a horrible idea, as was a burst mechanism that did not reset if it was interrupted.

I was told by a CATM guy: "the variable trigger pull helps shooters focus on fundamentals by not being able to predict when the trigger will break, they can't flinch."



Of course thats the most optimistic way possible to think of a shitty trigger.

[O3SKILL]

Any standard USGI trigger has a heavy pull. NOBODY ever perceived the difference coming from the burst cam on their own. Marines only knew about it if a coach or PMI mentioned it during grass week or once they became involved in division matches. The humpty dumpty's I've carried were so beat they could shoot around corners. The trigger pull was the last thing I ever thought about....lol.

[opngrnd]

Any standard USGI trigger has a heavy pull. NOBODY ever perceived the difference coming from the burst cam on their own. Marines only knew about it if a coach or PMI mentioned it during grass week or once they became involved in division matches. The humpty dumpty's I've carried were so beat they could shoot around corners. The trigger pull was the last thing I ever thought about....lol.

I've often felt the same way, though from the Army side. I can certainly tell it's no match trigger, but given that the last weapon I was handed showed the beginning speckles of rust on the bolt carrier, the trigger weight is usually the least of my problems. meh...

[MistWolf]

While the trigger pull may, in some cases, be the least of my worries, it the first thing I check out when firing any firearm. I don't want it going off until I tell it to

[coldblue]

Finding a tested and mature 3RBC was the only way we prevented the A2 from being a semi-auto trigger function rifle only, which was the plan at HQ from the get-go.
This is called a compromise...