Why PMAGs are better than aluminum USGI

[Ryno12]

After buying new aluminum magazines years ago, and taking care of them, I discovered they worked really good.

Is that to include stretching the springs out every two weeks?

[imdbman]

I have been in the military since 1987 with a break in service and soon to retire. Started in infantry and eneded up a battlefield airmen for 17 years. Deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan. I have been provided several shooting courses and multiple local shooting opportunities. I have owned my own M4gery since 2007. I am speaking on my experience with aluminum and PMags. I have used A LOT of aluminum 30 rnd mags and have had mag problems with well used abused mags with the problem being feed lip area, either misaligned or swelled when fully loaded. To minimize the effect of problem mags we have usually used the mags during training leading to a deployment and switched out problem mags to be turned in. My first PMag experience was training prior to a 2012 deployment when our armorer/training guy issued me 7 new in the wrap, tan PMags, no window if I wanted to use them. I have no idea which Gen. I did not like how they carried or pulled due to the size and the ridges. I use 3 Tactical Tailor 3 mag pouches loaded with 2 mags each as my standard. Aluminum mags easily pulled with 2 and even 3 mags per pouch.

The we went to a move and shoot range where I decided I would not deploy with PMags. I loaded 4 of them and began the course. I had 3 mags with FTF during the course causing me to transition to M9 and find cover at 50m. I found my followers had froze up with half a mag remaining which led to any rounds above the follower remaining falling out to the ground when I pulled the mag. These were brand new mags and not just 1 mag but 3. I used aluminum after that and was able to shoot 9 good mags to deploy with. Of course none of these were new and I did take 2-3 OOS after shooting 15 mags. I own 7-8 PMags and lots of aluminum mags. I have not had problems with Pmags I own but they also do not get the use my issued PMags get. Wish I could afford that. PMags pull fine from single mag pouches but I would never carry 3-4 mags only and would not carry 7 mags in individual pouches strung all across my upper body. I have seen lots of that on the Army side. KISS always rules!

[sevenhelmet]

Oh, great... another PMAG vs. USGI thread.

[JasonB1]

Where's their dremel fix? Got a PDF or quote from Magpul? I want to learn more, thanks.

Not a problem with all lowers.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...bility-issues/

[tehpwnag3]

I sure hope PMAG's are better because that's where I placed most of my mag money!! I do have about 30 GI's as well.

[Renegade]

Drake Clark made a well documented statement about about M3 compatibility with certain styles of lower receivers to the affect of... "modify the M3 by removing the over travel stop to allow for proper interface".

That is a different dremel mag fix. I was talking about the one for the GEN1 PMAGS OP tested. The one where you dremel the feed lips wider. The M3 fix is to fit them into non-standard magwells and enlarged trigger guards.

[Renegade]

Where's their dremel fix? Got a PDF or quote from Magpul? I want to learn more, thanks.

The issue I was referring to was the 03/07 PMAG.

Here is what needed to be fixed (there was also a video, and other before/after pix:



And if you did not want to dremel your magazine, or screwed it up more, you could do an exchange:

[TactiCool1976]

If they were anything like the magazines I had in the Army and later in the Coast Guard it doesn't surprise me. No one took care of magazines, had any idea how many rounds, etc.. Bad magazines were often times cycled back into the rotation by supply personnel because of accountability issues.

After buying new aluminum magazines years ago, and taking care of them, I discovered they worked really good.

Iraqgunz, yea i have a couple of the brandnew Alum gi mags that came with my AR's and they actually work really well, so who knows.... jmo i think alot of it is the spring / follower... for which you need a good spring and a anti-tilt follower...

something i just thought of, Does anyone remember what you always got into a habit of doing before putting a new mag in your M16? back in the day? slapping your mag on your hand / kevlar to make sure all the rounds were seating back in the mag properly...

[sinlessorrow]

The issue I was referring to was the 03/07 PMAG.

Here is what needed to be fixed (there was also a video, and other before/after pix:



And if you did not want to dremel your magazine, or screwed it up more, you could do an exchange:

Lets also not forget Pmag M3's were having issues with the second round transposing up and making it impossible to seat a mag on a closed bolt.

It was enough of an issue they had to redesign the M3.

BTW, totally stole these photos from the internet.



It is a big enough issue that in 40 of my black Pmag M3's every single one does it, yet my 10 tan with the improvement do not do it....Then again I've never had a GI mag that had that issue.

I'm not trying to sound like I'm hating on Pmag, but lets be honest about their god like perfection.

[SPQR476]

To add a few points...yes, you can drop an M3 and break it after a few drops if it hits right. Your USGI Mag would be non functional at the same point, however, and the cracked PMAG will still feed fine.

Yeah, there were some tweaks required to the 2007 PMAG for some guns. A decade ago. The M3 stop is there for a good reason, and if you want the other benefits of the mag, yes lowers that deviate from normal dimensions require alteration to the stop...but if you don't have a weird lower, it's a complete non-issue. Certainly not for anything built to TDP.

M3's were not redesigned. A tiny rib was added to deal with ammunition on the smaller end of SAAMI spec that could exhibit the transposition issue. Never was an issue with function, and apart from a few outliers, only on the early M3 20 did it prevent insertion when combined with the right rifle and ammunition. We made the change anyway. We have test data both before and after the change, and it doesn't affect anything else. Sinlesssorrow, why didn't you swap those out? You still can. If you're seeing the issue with mags you have, just swap them for new ones. We'll gladly do so, as has always been our policy.

We've long ago covered the whole long term storage thing on this very forum. There are plenty of guys in service right now who have PMAGS that have been on 3, 4, or more deployments. So that part should not be in question.

Lots of folks want to give USGI mags a pass, "Oh it was old" or "it was past service life" or "you just didn't take care of them". I'll agree that the USGI is not a "bad" mag with many ammunition types in certain iterations, although every change picatinny has made has seemingly made it worse. What cannot be said, however, in the face of the body of test data that now exists, is that the USGI is "as good as" the PMAG M3 and certainly not better by any stretch or interpretation of data. Not clean, not dirty, not with multiple types of currently issued ammo. Maybe extreme long term longevity in protected environments without rough handling, like non-maneuvering range use.

It's fine if someone "prefers" USGI, or any other mag, for form factor, fit in pouches, familiarity, or whatever. There's just not much of an argument that can be made based on feeding performance to support any choice other than PMAG GEN M3, especially with currently issued ammunition types.